1 00:00:03,169 --> 00:00:02,389 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:04,249 --> 00:00:03,179 triangle 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:04,259 you know there's explanation for 4 00:00:06,710 --> 00:00:05,370 everything that occurred in the 5 00:00:09,169 --> 00:00:06,720 Rendlesham forest incident 6 00:00:12,020 --> 00:00:09,179 it doesn't involve aliens at all it was 7 00:00:12,799 --> 00:00:12,030 completely silent it comes right over 8 00:00:16,039 --> 00:00:12,809 our heads 9 00:00:17,630 --> 00:00:16,049 it's so classic flying-saucer really 10 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:17,640 standing in the clearing he turned over 11 00:00:20,689 --> 00:00:19,410 to my father and held his hand and he 12 00:00:27,380 --> 00:00:20,699 looked in his eyes they said we're not 13 00:00:28,429 --> 00:00:27,390 alone welcome to podcast UFO for our 14 00:00:30,830 --> 00:00:28,439 live show 15 00:00:33,020 --> 00:00:30,840 we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m. 16 00:00:35,569 --> 00:00:33,030 Eastern Standard Time on the dark matter 17 00:00:39,319 --> 00:00:35,579 radio network please remember to visit 18 00:00:41,330 --> 00:00:39,329 the website podcast UFO calm during the 19 00:00:43,819 --> 00:00:41,340 show feel free to participate live in 20 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:43,829 our chat room and don't forget to Like 21 00:00:49,250 --> 00:00:46,850 us on our very active Facebook page 22 00:00:51,439 --> 00:00:49,260 hello and welcome to the show on Martin 23 00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:51,449 Wilshire host and we have a great show 24 00:00:55,639 --> 00:00:52,320 for you tonight 25 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:55,649 with guest David Marlar on triangular 26 00:01:00,650 --> 00:00:57,930 UFOs and a lot more and I've been trying 27 00:01:02,660 --> 00:01:00,660 to get Dave on for quite some time and 28 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:02,670 I'm really excited about this well 29 00:01:09,050 --> 00:01:05,850 Alejandro Rojas is in Las Vegas this 30 00:01:11,090 --> 00:01:09,060 week so there's no UFO news from him and 31 00:01:14,750 --> 00:01:11,100 I kind of feel like the stay-at-home mom 32 00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:14,760 while hubby is doing what ever 33 00:01:19,820 --> 00:01:17,520 who knows what in Vegas so I decided to 34 00:01:22,039 --> 00:01:19,830 cheat on him and bring in Ryan Sprague 35 00:01:23,810 --> 00:01:22,049 he's going to be talking in a few 36 00:01:26,810 --> 00:01:23,820 minutes about his first for you 37 00:01:31,340 --> 00:01:26,820 experience and before that I want to say 38 00:01:32,539 --> 00:01:31,350 after throwing wads of bills into 39 00:01:35,530 --> 00:01:32,549 people's foreheads 40 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:35,540 of the tech people over at Hostgator I 41 00:01:41,810 --> 00:01:38,610 finally got my email working that since 42 00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:41,820 January so it's finally at reactivated 43 00:01:46,069 --> 00:01:43,470 and working just fine and I have a slew 44 00:01:47,990 --> 00:01:46,079 of responding to catch up on I apologize 45 00:01:51,980 --> 00:01:48,000 if you wrote me a while ago and I didn't 46 00:01:53,870 --> 00:01:51,990 respond thank you to the supporters that 47 00:01:55,609 --> 00:01:53,880 are helping out with the show and I'll 48 00:01:57,170 --> 00:01:55,619 be traveling to Maryland this weekend to 49 00:01:59,690 --> 00:01:57,180 spend a couple of days with longtime 50 00:02:02,120 --> 00:01:59,700 researcher ray Stanford who's going to 51 00:02:05,359 --> 00:02:02,130 be going over all kinds of UFO evidence 52 00:02:07,249 --> 00:02:05,369 with me at some point we're going to be 53 00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:07,259 doing some pre recording for next week's 54 00:02:11,110 --> 00:02:08,940 show so that's right next week's show is 55 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:11,120 not live but I'll be in the chatroom 56 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:13,310 during the live show 57 00:02:18,220 --> 00:02:15,770 of chatroom you can go in there and if 58 00:02:20,890 --> 00:02:18,230 you're listening live now and just go 59 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:20,900 over to podcast UFO calm and it's our 60 00:02:27,309 --> 00:02:24,110 easy one to click sign-in again I want 61 00:02:28,630 --> 00:02:27,319 to thank supporters for just as little 62 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:28,640 as a dollar a month you can help support 63 00:02:32,259 --> 00:02:30,170 us and listen to the full show the 64 00:02:33,610 --> 00:02:32,269 second part of the show and here's 65 00:02:36,850 --> 00:02:33,620 another quick shout out we have a lot of 66 00:02:40,870 --> 00:02:36,860 $5 a month or more supporters Todd L 67 00:02:44,589 --> 00:02:40,880 Thank You Jon s mark P Jeremy Z Linda 68 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:44,599 see Robin D bill E and there'll be more 69 00:02:48,009 --> 00:02:46,850 next week so it's time to bring in Ryan 70 00:02:50,380 --> 00:02:48,019 Sprague how are you Ryan 71 00:02:53,949 --> 00:02:50,390 I'm doing great Martin I'm so happy to 72 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:53,959 be here and be the one that you are 73 00:03:00,940 --> 00:02:58,810 cheating on with Alejandro thank God yes 74 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:00,950 you came up on the show a couple of 75 00:03:04,150 --> 00:03:01,310 times 76 00:03:08,020 --> 00:03:04,160 we also debunked one of your AP or your 77 00:03:09,490 --> 00:03:08,030 April Fool's jokes so that was a fun 78 00:03:11,170 --> 00:03:09,500 experience I thought it would be a funny 79 00:03:13,870 --> 00:03:11,180 joke and it turned out to be the biggest 80 00:03:15,820 --> 00:03:13,880 Facebook post I've ever had so there 81 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:15,830 that tells you something right there 82 00:03:20,259 --> 00:03:17,810 you used all the right keywords that's 83 00:03:22,030 --> 00:03:20,269 what it is yeah yeah so why don't you 84 00:03:24,310 --> 00:03:22,040 tell us what's going on with this for 85 00:03:26,110 --> 00:03:24,320 yup you finally received a paper you did 86 00:03:28,509 --> 00:03:26,120 I know a lot of people have these 87 00:03:30,670 --> 00:03:28,519 experiences but it's always it's always 88 00:03:34,420 --> 00:03:30,680 interesting to hear about the process 89 00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:34,430 and what you found out yeah I had been 90 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:37,160 following the work of John Greenwald for 91 00:03:41,710 --> 00:03:39,200 a really long time Martin over at the 92 00:03:43,349 --> 00:03:41,720 black vault where this guy's got over a 93 00:03:47,830 --> 00:03:43,359 million declassified documents 94 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:47,840 pertaining to you know UFOs national 95 00:03:54,610 --> 00:03:50,930 security conspiracy theories it's 96 00:03:57,809 --> 00:03:54,620 incredible and sort of took a catapult 97 00:04:01,050 --> 00:03:57,819 from that and looked into the one of the 98 00:04:06,430 --> 00:04:01,060 most intriguing cases in my opinion the 99 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:06,440 1976 Tehran UFO incident hmm so you know 100 00:04:11,710 --> 00:04:09,350 John I had spoken to you at the UFO 101 00:04:14,470 --> 00:04:11,720 Congress last year and he said if you're 102 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:14,480 gonna request these things for an FOI a 103 00:04:19,479 --> 00:04:16,370 you have to be as specific as possible 104 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:19,489 if if you do not specifically request 105 00:04:23,170 --> 00:04:21,530 something they're not going to give it 106 00:04:25,270 --> 00:04:23,180 to you they don't have the time they 107 00:04:27,490 --> 00:04:25,280 don't have the wherewithal and frankly 108 00:04:28,990 --> 00:04:27,500 they don't care so unless you are 109 00:04:31,750 --> 00:04:29,000 super specific about what you were 110 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:31,760 looking for and the specific documents 111 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:33,890 they're not going to send it to you so 112 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:35,810 it took me a while to sort of gather all 113 00:04:42,730 --> 00:04:38,570 the information on this case and see 114 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:42,740 what I was looking for and I was able to 115 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:45,410 get from the Defense Intelligence Agency 116 00:04:51,180 --> 00:04:48,170 all the documents that they had on the 117 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:51,190 case this spanned over ten pages 118 00:04:57,730 --> 00:04:55,130 detailing the incident reported by both 119 00:05:01,000 --> 00:04:57,740 the NSA the CIA and the Defense 120 00:05:05,470 --> 00:05:01,010 Intelligence Agency I was very surprised 121 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:05,480 to say the least and yeah it was took a 122 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:08,090 while as these things always do but how 123 00:05:13,690 --> 00:05:09,770 long did it take uh 124 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:13,700 it took about I would say five months or 125 00:05:18,730 --> 00:05:16,070 so for me to just get a response from 126 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:18,740 them and that wasn't even in reference 127 00:05:23,230 --> 00:05:20,510 to the documents themselves that took 128 00:05:25,450 --> 00:05:23,240 another two or three months but you know 129 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:25,460 in their official letter to me they they 130 00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:29,930 apologized for such a backlog and yeah 131 00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:32,000 with these sort of things Martin you 132 00:05:37,630 --> 00:05:34,280 have to be very patient because they get 133 00:05:39,670 --> 00:05:37,640 these requests all the time and just 134 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:39,680 like any government agency they only 135 00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:42,410 have you know one person doing these 136 00:05:46,719 --> 00:05:44,180 things especially when it comes to the 137 00:05:49,570 --> 00:05:46,729 UFO topic so we should be lucky that 138 00:05:51,670 --> 00:05:49,580 we're getting anything I guess no do 139 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:51,680 they treat as far as you know do they 140 00:05:56,770 --> 00:05:54,530 treat anyone any differently than anyone 141 00:05:59,170 --> 00:05:56,780 else or is everyone treated equally I 142 00:06:01,840 --> 00:05:59,180 would say everyone is treated equally 143 00:06:04,750 --> 00:06:01,850 again it has to do with how you request 144 00:06:07,659 --> 00:06:04,760 these things you can't go to the DIA the 145 00:06:10,510 --> 00:06:07,669 CIA anything like that and say I want 146 00:06:11,890 --> 00:06:10,520 information about UFOs or I want your 147 00:06:13,420 --> 00:06:11,900 information on Roswell 148 00:06:15,670 --> 00:06:13,430 these are things that they will 149 00:06:18,070 --> 00:06:15,680 immediately shrug off and your request 150 00:06:19,659 --> 00:06:18,080 will be put in the garbage you have to 151 00:06:22,510 --> 00:06:19,669 show that you have put time and effort 152 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:22,520 into this to get your your requests 153 00:06:30,430 --> 00:06:26,450 answered so again being as specific as 154 00:06:32,460 --> 00:06:30,440 you can about dates people involved you 155 00:06:35,290 --> 00:06:32,470 know certain agencies that perhaps 156 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:35,300 documented the case these are things 157 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:36,890 that they're looking for that so that 158 00:06:41,140 --> 00:06:39,410 they have to do the least amount of work 159 00:06:43,690 --> 00:06:41,150 to to give 160 00:06:45,940 --> 00:06:43,700 back to you so yeah as long as you are 161 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:45,950 detailed in specific they will treat you 162 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:47,810 just the same as anyone else requesting 163 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:50,450 now is any part of these ten pages 164 00:06:56,670 --> 00:06:53,570 redacted at all there were certain 165 00:07:00,250 --> 00:06:56,680 things redacted such as specific names 166 00:07:02,470 --> 00:07:00,260 pilots involved but other than that the 167 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:02,480 key players key witnesses involved in 168 00:07:06,940 --> 00:07:05,090 the case we're all still there and have 169 00:07:08,530 --> 00:07:06,950 also gone on the record so right there I 170 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:08,540 think that's why those certain things 171 00:07:11,710 --> 00:07:09,710 were not redacted 172 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:11,720 now did you learn anything that you 173 00:07:17,410 --> 00:07:14,210 didn't know already by looking through 174 00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:17,420 these documents that's a great question 175 00:07:21,490 --> 00:07:19,310 a lot of people have asked me was there 176 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:21,500 any new information this case has been 177 00:07:27,220 --> 00:07:23,930 available through the foi a for a while 178 00:07:30,010 --> 00:07:27,230 now but it was very exciting for me to 179 00:07:31,270 --> 00:07:30,020 actually get official documentation on 180 00:07:34,060 --> 00:07:31,280 it 181 00:07:37,780 --> 00:07:34,070 now you are now in the FBI NSA's 182 00:07:40,510 --> 00:07:37,790 watchlist exactly I know I as soon as I 183 00:07:42,610 --> 00:07:40,520 got that letter back I you know I told 184 00:07:46,690 --> 00:07:42,620 my friends yep there we go 185 00:07:49,690 --> 00:07:46,700 I'm in made it in but but yeah I think 186 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:49,700 what what struck me the most was certain 187 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:51,890 quotations by the witnesses involved 188 00:07:59,760 --> 00:07:54,410 that were in the documents this was a 189 00:08:02,530 --> 00:07:59,770 heavily reported and documented case and 190 00:08:04,990 --> 00:08:02,540 extremely fascinating and this was an 191 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:05,000 encounter I mean these pilots their 192 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:07,250 instruments failed when they got close 193 00:08:12,730 --> 00:08:09,250 to these objects and they were 194 00:08:15,490 --> 00:08:12,740 quote-unquote attacked by the object so 195 00:08:18,250 --> 00:08:15,500 the listener who has not heard about 196 00:08:20,620 --> 00:08:18,260 this specific case can you just go over 197 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:20,630 that in a nutshell just briefly of 198 00:08:26,950 --> 00:08:22,850 course the Tehran incident happened more 199 00:08:30,730 --> 00:08:26,960 in September 19th of 1976 and this was 200 00:08:33,820 --> 00:08:30,740 in the city of Tehran in Iran and this 201 00:08:36,790 --> 00:08:33,830 was witnessed by the Imperial Iranian 202 00:08:39,220 --> 00:08:36,800 Air Force they got reports of lights 203 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:39,230 being seen in the sky so they thought it 204 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:41,450 would be Venus or you know the the 205 00:08:47,650 --> 00:08:44,090 quintessential swamp gas so they sent an 206 00:08:49,870 --> 00:08:47,660 F 4th fighter up to investigate and when 207 00:08:52,540 --> 00:08:49,880 they got up there they they noticed that 208 00:08:54,740 --> 00:08:52,550 this was an actual solid diamond-shaped 209 00:08:56,510 --> 00:08:54,750 object that was actually 210 00:08:59,210 --> 00:08:56,520 breaking off into several other objects 211 00:09:01,520 --> 00:08:59,220 that would come close to the pilot the 212 00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:01,530 pilot then landed reported what he saw 213 00:09:08,390 --> 00:09:05,220 and then they sent up more fighter jets 214 00:09:10,580 --> 00:09:08,400 to to investigate and when the fighter 215 00:09:12,830 --> 00:09:10,590 pilots got closer to the object all of 216 00:09:14,660 --> 00:09:12,840 their instruments failed so at that 217 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:14,670 point you know what could they do they 218 00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:19,290 had to land and figure out how you know 219 00:09:23,870 --> 00:09:21,420 how to approach this thing an 220 00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:23,880 investigation was done afterwards both 221 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:26,640 by the Iranian Air Force and the US 222 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:31,050 government and very very fascinating I 223 00:09:34,970 --> 00:09:33,690 would definitely urge people to look 224 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:34,980 further into it 225 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:38,370 there's many TV shows that have included 226 00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:40,530 this event but for all of that 227 00:09:45,470 --> 00:09:42,660 information I suggest going to either 228 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:45,480 the article that I wrote or to John 229 00:09:49,940 --> 00:09:48,090 Greenwald's black vault website and to 230 00:09:51,620 --> 00:09:49,950 see the documents firsthand 231 00:09:54,740 --> 00:09:51,630 now what's uh what's the name of your 232 00:09:57,830 --> 00:09:54,750 blog my blog is somewhere in the skies 233 00:09:59,720 --> 00:09:57,840 dot-com yeah I like that great name well 234 00:10:03,050 --> 00:09:59,730 hey thanks so much and I hope Allah 235 00:10:06,020 --> 00:10:03,060 Hondros jealous that would make my day 236 00:10:08,270 --> 00:10:06,030 yeah all right I'll talk to you soon 237 00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:08,280 Ryan so hang in there everyone we'll be 238 00:11:41,330 --> 00:10:10,110 right back after the music break with 239 00:11:45,810 --> 00:11:44,040 well that tune was by Carrie Lloyd 240 00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:45,820 Whitehouse and you know I played that on 241 00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:47,950 mono I apologize it and the sound near 242 00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:52,710 is good and David Marlar how are you I 243 00:11:56,970 --> 00:11:55,600 am doing quite well thank you did you 244 00:11:59,400 --> 00:11:56,980 forget to unmute your mic 245 00:12:03,000 --> 00:11:59,410 I don't know there's a little lag in the 246 00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:03,010 computer okay hey David I'm real excited 247 00:12:08,340 --> 00:12:05,440 to have you on the show and I've heard 248 00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:08,350 your name for quite a while nothing but 249 00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:09,190 good 250 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:11,590 I've listened to interviews with you and 251 00:12:15,630 --> 00:12:13,990 I'm just really excited and everyone is 252 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:15,640 on the chat board as well we'll be 253 00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:17,200 having some questions come in if you 254 00:12:21,630 --> 00:12:19,120 haven't jumped in the chat room you 255 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:21,640 listening live go to podcast UFO comm 256 00:12:27,150 --> 00:12:23,890 and right on the sidebar it's just two 257 00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:27,160 clicks and you're in and so the first 258 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:29,830 hour we're gonna be talking about all 259 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:34,510 types of triangle UFOs obscure etc in 260 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:35,770 the second hour we're going to be 261 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:37,450 talking about a new project to working 262 00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:40,330 on plus we're gonna be talking about the 263 00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:44,200 January 5th 2000 sighting that involved 264 00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:46,200 police officers a real fascinating 265 00:12:50,850 --> 00:12:48,790 sighting I've heard about for a number 266 00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:50,860 of years and I can't wait to talk about 267 00:12:55,050 --> 00:12:53,440 that as well so for the person who 268 00:12:58,680 --> 00:12:55,060 doesn't know who David 269 00:13:00,330 --> 00:12:58,690 Marlar is can you go ahead and say who 270 00:13:02,220 --> 00:13:00,340 you are your background and all that if 271 00:13:03,930 --> 00:13:02,230 you would please sure 272 00:13:06,330 --> 00:13:03,940 well I've been actively involved in the 273 00:13:08,940 --> 00:13:06,340 UFO field now for about 25 years 274 00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:08,950 always had an interest even as a child 275 00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:12,160 growing up in the early 70s and my 276 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:13,870 interest was initially piqued back in 277 00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:17,530 1973 during a wave of UFO sightings in 278 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:19,960 and around the vicinity of a small town 279 00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:23,350 called Piedmont Missouri and that was 280 00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:24,430 what initially piqued my interest 281 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:27,100 because I had family and friends that 282 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:29,710 lived down there at the time and so that 283 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:31,210 was my initial introduction at the age 284 00:13:38,250 --> 00:13:34,270 of five years old to the UFO subject but 285 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:38,260 in 1990 I became involved with MUFON the 286 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:40,810 mutual UFO network and later became 287 00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:44,170 state director and over the years in 288 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:46,150 doing investigations I was slowly 289 00:13:51,210 --> 00:13:49,510 amassing a very large private library of 290 00:13:54,329 --> 00:13:51,220 UFO books journals and 291 00:13:57,780 --> 00:13:54,339 papers news clippings audio recordings 292 00:14:00,030 --> 00:13:57,790 etc and you know have one of the larger 293 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:00,040 private collections on the subject and 294 00:14:05,249 --> 00:14:02,410 much of the material that I wrote about 295 00:14:06,540 --> 00:14:05,259 in my book was derived from many of 296 00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:06,550 these news clippings many of these 297 00:14:11,550 --> 00:14:08,860 obscure private newspapers published you 298 00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:11,560 know anywhere between the 1940s all the 299 00:14:20,610 --> 00:14:17,560 way up into the present day and what 300 00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:20,620 what what started you in the particular 301 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:23,529 interest of triangle UFOs well my 302 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:25,930 initial introduction like many here in 303 00:14:31,410 --> 00:14:28,689 the United States was the initial cover 304 00:14:34,259 --> 00:14:31,420 stories being published in the MUFON 305 00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:34,269 Journal at the time and this was like I 306 00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:38,470 said in 1990 and into 1991 and of course 307 00:14:43,259 --> 00:14:40,089 the Belgian wave of these large 308 00:14:46,319 --> 00:14:43,269 triangular UFOs started in November of 309 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:46,329 1989 and stretched all the way into the 310 00:14:52,050 --> 00:14:50,290 spring of 1991 and just purely as an 311 00:14:54,540 --> 00:14:52,060 academic at just reading about these 312 00:14:57,210 --> 00:14:54,550 reports I was fascinated by a couple of 313 00:14:59,009 --> 00:14:57,220 different things Martin one as I'm sure 314 00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,019 you can appreciate was just the sheer 315 00:15:04,290 --> 00:15:01,360 scale of what was being reported you 316 00:15:06,509 --> 00:15:04,300 know historically we hear these reports 317 00:15:09,059 --> 00:15:06,519 of these twenty thirty foot diameter 318 00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:09,069 flying saucers or flying discs so you 319 00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:12,160 know what these military and law 320 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:14,350 enforcement officers and citizenry over 321 00:15:18,569 --> 00:15:15,910 in Belgium we're describing were you 322 00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:18,579 know 300 foot long dark triangular 323 00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,550 objects not flitting about in the sky so 324 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:23,920 much but you know cavorting very slowly 325 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:26,850 at low altitude over the treetops and 326 00:15:31,410 --> 00:15:29,290 virtually silent if not completely 327 00:15:34,499 --> 00:15:31,420 silent so it was a departure from that 328 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:34,509 classic imagery that that I I cannot 329 00:15:38,999 --> 00:15:36,970 refer we have of the silver flying 330 00:15:41,639 --> 00:15:39,009 saucer zipping about in the sky and 331 00:15:44,879 --> 00:15:41,649 coupled with that I was amazed with the 332 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:44,889 way in which the Belgian military was 333 00:15:49,679 --> 00:15:47,290 not only investigating the reports but 334 00:15:51,299 --> 00:15:49,689 very willingly sharing their their 335 00:15:54,449 --> 00:15:51,309 findings their investigative findings 336 00:15:56,579 --> 00:15:54,459 with the general public so it was a huge 337 00:15:58,139 --> 00:15:56,589 departure from what we're used to here 338 00:15:59,819 --> 00:15:58,149 in the United States with military 339 00:16:03,030 --> 00:15:59,829 officials regarding the UFO subject 340 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:03,040 right I had the pleasure of talking to 341 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:04,500 in meeting Jenna 342 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:07,850 - Brauer yes what what a nice man he is 343 00:16:14,210 --> 00:16:11,730 interesting and you know he was right in 344 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:14,220 the the midst of the whole thing yeah 345 00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:16,530 and I have to give him credit for a man 346 00:16:20,780 --> 00:16:18,300 in his position 347 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:20,790 you know the UFO subject obviously is 348 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:22,710 difficult for us to manage as as 349 00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:24,810 citizens but to be in a position of 350 00:16:29,890 --> 00:16:27,750 military authority and to acknowledge as 351 00:16:32,210 --> 00:16:29,900 he did at the time that we have 352 00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:32,220 unidentified objects in our Air Force 353 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:34,260 that are in our airspace that are beyond 354 00:16:38,780 --> 00:16:37,110 our control and that's that's a huge 355 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:38,790 statement coming from a man that's 356 00:16:44,810 --> 00:16:41,010 supposed to be in control of our 357 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:44,820 airspace and in charge and I've been 358 00:16:49,010 --> 00:16:46,650 struck by the humility of the the 359 00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,020 Belgian people not only general de 360 00:16:53,510 --> 00:16:51,360 Brouwer but also a good friend that I've 361 00:16:57,170 --> 00:16:53,520 come to know over the years mr. Patrick 362 00:16:59,090 --> 00:16:57,180 Ferran who is the director of now it's 363 00:17:01,010 --> 00:16:59,100 called Co peps but at the time it was so 364 00:17:03,020 --> 00:17:01,020 peps the investigative group that 365 00:17:07,220 --> 00:17:03,030 basically catalogued all of these 366 00:17:09,830 --> 00:17:07,230 sightings really I think I saw something 367 00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:09,840 on him wasn't there like then to have 368 00:17:14,510 --> 00:17:12,240 like two books or a big huge books full 369 00:17:16,670 --> 00:17:14,520 or maybe even more than that yes I'm 370 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:16,680 looking at I'm looking at the copies 371 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:18,240 sitting over on my bookshelf right now 372 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:21,510 actually and very comprehensive they've 373 00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:23,970 never been translated into English which 374 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,470 one day hopefully we can get those 375 00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:27,600 translated for english-speaking 376 00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:31,470 audiences but a fascinating compendium 377 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:34,590 of triangular but not just triangular 378 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:36,330 UFOs that were being reported at the 379 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:38,880 time but other shapes and sizes and some 380 00:17:43,550 --> 00:17:40,650 of that factors into the historical 381 00:17:48,580 --> 00:17:43,560 research that I've gathered and in point 382 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:48,590 of fact I'm happy to say that in June 383 00:17:52,610 --> 00:17:51,090 mr. patrick ferrant will be in the 384 00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,620 united states and he will be here in 385 00:17:56,810 --> 00:17:54,720 albuquerque and we are planning our 386 00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,820 first face-to-face meeting so I'm 387 00:18:00,260 --> 00:17:58,080 looking forward to exchanging 388 00:18:02,570 --> 00:18:00,270 information with him face to face 389 00:18:04,790 --> 00:18:02,580 well excellent now about I'd say about a 390 00:18:08,210 --> 00:18:04,800 year year and a half ago I did more or 391 00:18:12,190 --> 00:18:08,220 less a UFO debate with Roger Nygaard who 392 00:18:14,770 --> 00:18:12,200 is a documentarian or a dark hour film 393 00:18:18,409 --> 00:18:14,780 what am I trying to say 394 00:18:22,090 --> 00:18:18,419 filmmaker ok did Trekkies and 395 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:22,100 a bunch of different films and anyway he 396 00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,129 had his answer for all of the triangle 397 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:28,559 UFOs he said they were all military that 398 00:18:32,749 --> 00:18:30,119 we don't know about and that you know 399 00:18:35,810 --> 00:18:32,759 you hear a lot of do I want to say 400 00:18:38,169 --> 00:18:35,820 skeptics or debunkers either one but a 401 00:18:40,849 --> 00:18:38,179 lot of times they'll bring up that the 402 00:18:43,369 --> 00:18:40,859 triangle UFOs are nothing but something 403 00:18:44,930 --> 00:18:43,379 military that we don't know about what's 404 00:18:45,169 --> 00:18:44,940 your what's your answer to someone like 405 00:18:47,659 --> 00:18:45,179 that 406 00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:47,669 well let me just say this because I've 407 00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:49,350 stated this to audiences across the 408 00:18:55,869 --> 00:18:51,720 country over the last year year and a 409 00:18:58,580 --> 00:18:55,879 half I do not deny that some triangular 410 00:19:03,320 --> 00:18:58,590 objects triangular UFOs if you will 411 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:03,330 could be military aircraft now those 412 00:19:07,849 --> 00:19:05,330 aren't necessarily the low-flying 413 00:19:09,799 --> 00:19:07,859 extremely large objects that are being 414 00:19:12,619 --> 00:19:09,809 seen you know flitting over the treetops 415 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:12,629 and power lines across this country in 416 00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:15,690 many other countries but to make it a 417 00:19:22,129 --> 00:19:19,200 blanket explanation to me speaks to the 418 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:22,139 person's ignorance and I I don't say 419 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:24,570 that I don't say that lightly and the 420 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:26,369 reason I say that for anyone that's read 421 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:27,450 my book 422 00:19:34,489 --> 00:19:30,690 these reports go back at least to the 423 00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:34,499 late 1800s and I have numerous accounts 424 00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:37,289 of these triangular objects before the 425 00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:40,980 advent of powered flight and I I think 426 00:19:45,470 --> 00:19:43,440 you know you can make that argument with 427 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:45,480 regard to the modern date reports and by 428 00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:47,129 that I mean maybe over the last twenty 429 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:49,919 thirty years but then there's some 430 00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:51,570 common sense questions that come into 431 00:19:57,049 --> 00:19:54,840 play why are we flying these around all 432 00:19:59,180 --> 00:19:57,059 over the world apparently just for the 433 00:20:01,580 --> 00:19:59,190 entertainment of civilians who see them 434 00:20:03,259 --> 00:20:01,590 and yet we have no reports of these 435 00:20:06,139 --> 00:20:03,269 being seen over military theater 436 00:20:07,940 --> 00:20:06,149 operations if we have military aircraft 437 00:20:09,499 --> 00:20:07,950 and colonel john alexander that wrote 438 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:09,509 the foreword of my book he and i agree 439 00:20:15,139 --> 00:20:12,450 on this point wholeheartedly if we had 440 00:20:17,989 --> 00:20:15,149 craft that can behave maneuver like 441 00:20:20,029 --> 00:20:17,999 these objects are reported to do we 442 00:20:23,419 --> 00:20:20,039 would be using them we would not be 443 00:20:25,519 --> 00:20:23,429 resorting to f-117a stealth fighters b-2 444 00:20:29,930 --> 00:20:25,529 stealth bombers which you know in 445 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:29,940 comparison is is infantile technology so 446 00:20:34,340 --> 00:20:32,290 if we have this technology why are 447 00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:34,350 we using it within military theaters 448 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:36,520 we're saving it for something really 449 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:40,510 good maybe for the next big war yeah no 450 00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:44,110 I that makes total sense to me and if 451 00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:46,630 you're going back into the 1800s they 452 00:20:51,530 --> 00:20:48,840 can't really argue that and I was 453 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:51,540 absolutely unaware that there were 454 00:20:56,370 --> 00:20:54,130 triangular sightings that far back you 455 00:21:00,270 --> 00:20:56,380 know it seems to me you hear about of 456 00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:00,280 course first was sort of like a wing to 457 00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:03,760 disk and then the disk you know the 458 00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:06,520 flying saucer so to speak sort of came 459 00:21:14,010 --> 00:21:09,280 into fashion as it seemed the cigar 460 00:21:15,540 --> 00:21:14,020 shape and then the triangle it seems to 461 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:15,550 me you know I had a discussion I think 462 00:21:19,260 --> 00:21:17,230 it was with Leo sprinkle just last week 463 00:21:21,210 --> 00:21:19,270 and you know perhaps these different 464 00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:21,220 crafts if we're going in the 465 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:24,340 extra-terrestrial route to say that's 466 00:21:28,410 --> 00:21:26,050 what these are of course no one really 467 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:28,420 knows for sure but if we're saying that 468 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:32,290 is the truth then they could be from 469 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:35,410 different planets or you know just next 470 00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:38,110 year's model or something absolutely and 471 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:39,430 you bring up a good point you know I 472 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:41,050 agree with what you just said you know 473 00:21:46,170 --> 00:21:44,410 we don't know and it really bothers me 474 00:21:47,940 --> 00:21:46,180 when you have as you mentioned the 475 00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:47,950 skeptics or even many people within the 476 00:21:52,890 --> 00:21:50,860 UFO community that are open to UFOs but 477 00:21:56,130 --> 00:21:52,900 they make this delineation where well 478 00:21:57,690 --> 00:21:56,140 the triangles those are ours and this is 479 00:22:00,030 --> 00:21:57,700 the thing if you're going to make a 480 00:22:02,460 --> 00:22:00,040 statement you damn well better back it 481 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:02,470 up with facts and to just arbitrarily 482 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:05,530 throw that comment out there what is 483 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:07,510 your basis for making that conclusion 484 00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:10,690 and the basis that I made the historical 485 00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:12,430 argument as I like to say is is 486 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:14,950 basically in my book looking at the 487 00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:17,170 history looking at the consistency of 488 00:22:24,030 --> 00:22:20,350 these reports spanning worldwide over 489 00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:24,040 decades it really stretches the the 490 00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:27,430 believability of this theory that these 491 00:22:31,470 --> 00:22:29,470 are some type of top-secret military 492 00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:31,480 aircraft that that we're not aware of 493 00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:34,510 and unfortunately that a lot of this 494 00:22:37,980 --> 00:22:36,160 goes back and this is kind of a sacred 495 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:37,990 cow that I'm going to be poking here so 496 00:22:43,290 --> 00:22:39,930 I'm we're probably get a lot of chatter 497 00:22:45,850 --> 00:22:43,300 as a result of this from the audience 498 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:45,860 but you know people arbitrarily if you 499 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:48,110 look up triangular UFOs I see it so 500 00:22:52,810 --> 00:22:50,210 often it really irritates me 501 00:22:55,630 --> 00:22:52,820 they'll state well oh the triangle UFOs 502 00:22:58,330 --> 00:22:55,640 those are just the tr-3b aircraft yeah 503 00:23:00,669 --> 00:22:58,340 okay well first off let's take really 504 00:23:03,820 --> 00:23:00,679 exists does it well that's just the 505 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:03,830 point it might I can't sit here and say 506 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:07,250 that it doesn't exist but that story 507 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:09,650 really goes back to one individual who 508 00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:13,370 claims to have worked on inside military 509 00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,460 projects and again you know for the 510 00:23:19,630 --> 00:23:18,320 audience let's just take a dose of 511 00:23:22,210 --> 00:23:19,640 common sense for a minute 512 00:23:24,370 --> 00:23:22,220 in writing my book I interviewed 513 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:24,380 aerospace engineers from British 514 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:27,530 Aerospace Boeing and McDonnell Douglas 515 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:30,530 and there may be some some aviation 516 00:23:33,730 --> 00:23:32,450 aircraft design engineers out there 517 00:23:36,159 --> 00:23:33,740 right now that are listening to this 518 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:36,169 this one individual who I won't name 519 00:23:40,539 --> 00:23:37,610 because I don't wish to give him any 520 00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:40,549 more celebrity or audience than he are 521 00:23:44,980 --> 00:23:42,799 he's already garnered he claims to have 522 00:23:47,140 --> 00:23:44,990 worked on this project but he goes one 523 00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:47,150 step further he says not only did I work 524 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:49,190 on the project here's the physics and 525 00:23:52,570 --> 00:23:50,809 here's how the object worked and here's 526 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:52,580 some detailed schematics of how the 527 00:23:58,299 --> 00:23:55,490 object worked for anyone that has worked 528 00:24:00,580 --> 00:23:58,309 in the defense industry if you are 529 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:00,590 working on a top-secret aircraft or 530 00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:03,530 let's just say a component thereof and 531 00:24:09,159 --> 00:24:07,100 you go public with said information you 532 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:09,169 are going to be arrested you are going 533 00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:11,090 to have your pension revoked and you are 534 00:24:15,789 --> 00:24:13,480 going to be looking at serious jail time 535 00:24:19,650 --> 00:24:15,799 none of this has happened to this 536 00:24:22,659 --> 00:24:19,660 individual it sort of bob lazar like 537 00:24:24,250 --> 00:24:22,669 well and that's another sacred cow that 538 00:24:26,140 --> 00:24:24,260 i'm sorry yeah you know I'm just pretty 539 00:24:29,770 --> 00:24:26,150 blatant I don't sugarcoat it anymore Bob 540 00:24:32,890 --> 00:24:29,780 Lazar is this information as far as I'm 541 00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:32,900 concerned in my opinion and the reason I 542 00:24:36,909 --> 00:24:35,540 say that is you know sometimes that rubs 543 00:24:38,890 --> 00:24:36,919 people the wrong way that have their 544 00:24:41,289 --> 00:24:38,900 belief systems hinged on these people 545 00:24:44,289 --> 00:24:41,299 and their testimony but this is this is 546 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:44,299 what I posed to you these are the people 547 00:24:50,620 --> 00:24:47,330 making the claims the burden of proof is 548 00:24:52,570 --> 00:24:50,630 on them not me to tear them down they 549 00:24:57,340 --> 00:24:52,580 have made these outrageous claims but 550 00:24:59,710 --> 00:24:57,350 where are their facts right right I like 551 00:25:04,990 --> 00:24:59,720 you Dave I can tell you that right now 552 00:25:06,669 --> 00:25:05,000 I think a lot similar to the way you do 553 00:25:08,740 --> 00:25:06,679 I want to tell you a story that is 554 00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:08,750 pretty interesting because there's a lot 555 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:10,460 there's a lot of information that I've 556 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:12,850 had since I started the show on 557 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:15,850 triangular UFOs and encounters with them 558 00:25:20,770 --> 00:25:19,370 and one of them is a listener I'm not 559 00:25:23,860 --> 00:25:20,780 sure if she's listening now she's in 560 00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:23,870 Australia she said when she was a little 561 00:25:28,860 --> 00:25:25,460 girl working in the garden with her 562 00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:28,870 mother all of a sudden this big triangle 563 00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:33,200 UFO flew right over them and and this is 564 00:25:37,930 --> 00:25:35,630 something that I haven't heard or maybe 565 00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:37,940 I heard it once or twice but they felt 566 00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:39,440 like it was like they were being 567 00:25:43,299 --> 00:25:41,360 pressured like it pushed her right down 568 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:43,309 on the ground this pressure as it went 569 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:45,289 over have you ever heard a story like 570 00:25:51,730 --> 00:25:48,770 that not involving an individual but I 571 00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:51,740 just was lecturing in Florida for the 572 00:25:56,740 --> 00:25:55,039 state MUFON group down there and a great 573 00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,750 group by the way I have to thank them 574 00:26:02,289 --> 00:25:59,360 publicly while I'm mentioning that I had 575 00:26:05,399 --> 00:26:02,299 a wonderful time but I actually 576 00:26:08,590 --> 00:26:05,409 encountered someone who had a sighting 577 00:26:10,899 --> 00:26:08,600 several years ago in southern Illinois 578 00:26:13,090 --> 00:26:10,909 which is where I used to reside up until 579 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:13,100 three years ago and again I was state 580 00:26:17,770 --> 00:26:15,049 state Illinois fine state director for 581 00:26:20,110 --> 00:26:17,780 several years there his experience 582 00:26:24,430 --> 00:26:20,120 involved some type of pressure or 583 00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:24,440 downdraft that was affecting a group of 584 00:26:28,830 --> 00:26:27,020 trees in fact I'll be interviewing him 585 00:26:31,810 --> 00:26:28,840 later this weekend to get more 586 00:26:36,850 --> 00:26:31,820 additional details on this but there are 587 00:26:39,490 --> 00:26:36,860 a small percentage of situations where 588 00:26:41,710 --> 00:26:39,500 there seems to be some effect on the 589 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:41,720 surroundings especially underneath the 590 00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:45,890 object but the vast majority usually 591 00:26:49,930 --> 00:26:48,049 these objects are seemingly moving 592 00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:49,940 through the air without displacement of 593 00:26:54,730 --> 00:26:52,220 air without any electromagnetic effects 594 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:54,740 although again there are some in the 595 00:26:59,860 --> 00:26:56,210 reports that have been able to gather 596 00:27:03,010 --> 00:26:59,870 but it's very interesting and there are 597 00:27:05,230 --> 00:27:03,020 variations within the reports I don't 598 00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:05,240 like to make it sound like every every 599 00:27:10,389 --> 00:27:07,190 account fits a pattern there there are 600 00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:10,399 certainly variations in the reports but 601 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:12,169 you know admittedly sometimes that may 602 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:13,250 be do nots 603 00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:15,050 much to the UFO being observed but the 604 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:17,390 UFO observer there you know their lack 605 00:27:23,770 --> 00:27:20,690 of visual acuity maybe their lack of you 606 00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:23,780 know auditory you know ability to hear 607 00:27:28,780 --> 00:27:27,140 the object obviously the wind blowing in 608 00:27:31,450 --> 00:27:28,790 the opposite direction if there was a 609 00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:31,460 slight sound that may inhibit or 610 00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:33,950 attenuate the ability to you know hear 611 00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:36,830 that that sound so there are variations 612 00:27:40,390 --> 00:27:38,510 in the reports I don't want to make it 613 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:40,400 sound like it's one homogeneous body of 614 00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:43,370 sighting reports and sometimes it's 615 00:27:47,020 --> 00:27:44,540 interesting you know you look for 616 00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:47,030 patterns you look for consistencies but 617 00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:48,350 I think equally interesting as a 618 00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:49,760 researcher it's interesting to find 619 00:27:54,610 --> 00:27:51,980 those that don't fit the pattern those 620 00:27:56,380 --> 00:27:54,620 those outliers where I have no other 621 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:56,390 case that reports that isn't that 622 00:27:59,710 --> 00:27:57,890 interesting should we explore that a 623 00:28:01,930 --> 00:27:59,720 little bit further there's actually one 624 00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:01,940 from 1957 which hopefully we can touch 625 00:28:05,980 --> 00:28:03,350 on maybe later 626 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:05,990 where there was an unusual case that 627 00:28:09,670 --> 00:28:07,250 just didn't seem to fit the overall 628 00:28:12,730 --> 00:28:09,680 pattern that was in an air intelligence 629 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:12,740 report in Project Blue Book why don't we 630 00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:13,850 just go right into that right now 631 00:28:17,290 --> 00:28:15,710 because I do have some questions on the 632 00:28:20,730 --> 00:28:17,300 chatroom boat why don't you just 633 00:28:24,370 --> 00:28:20,740 describe that particular story okay well 634 00:28:26,170 --> 00:28:24,380 you know besides the newspaper articles 635 00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:26,180 in the newspaper archives I went through 636 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:28,190 I did a comprehensive review of all the 637 00:28:33,940 --> 00:28:31,610 Declassified UFO mo D files as well as 638 00:28:37,180 --> 00:28:33,950 Air Force project Bluebook files looking 639 00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:37,190 for triangular reports and there were 640 00:28:42,580 --> 00:28:39,710 quite a few in in all of these different 641 00:28:43,630 --> 00:28:42,590 areas and I sifted through them I tried 642 00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:43,640 to find the best the most 643 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:46,190 well-documented you know even some 644 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:48,890 involving radar confirmation in addition 645 00:28:56,350 --> 00:28:52,210 to multiple eyewitness accounts but in 646 00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:56,360 1957 November of 1957 I found what 647 00:29:01,990 --> 00:28:59,600 appears to be a global wave of 648 00:29:04,510 --> 00:29:02,000 triangular UFO sightings now I know it 649 00:29:06,010 --> 00:29:04,520 may sound strange those that are you 650 00:29:09,630 --> 00:29:06,020 know familiar to hearing these accounts 651 00:29:14,650 --> 00:29:09,640 in the 80s and the 90s this was 1957 and 652 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:14,660 November of 1957 the Belgian Defense 653 00:29:21,150 --> 00:29:15,410 Intelligence 654 00:29:23,950 --> 00:29:21,160 Service was investigating a wave of 655 00:29:25,810 --> 00:29:23,960 triangular space ships that was their 656 00:29:26,890 --> 00:29:25,820 term not mine at the time in the 657 00:29:28,390 --> 00:29:26,900 newspapers 658 00:29:31,330 --> 00:29:28,400 triangular spaceships that were being 659 00:29:33,070 --> 00:29:31,340 reported and investigated numerous 660 00:29:35,230 --> 00:29:33,080 accounts I also found a Reuters news 661 00:29:37,330 --> 00:29:35,240 article that corroborated that and 662 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:37,340 discussed in detail a particular 663 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:40,370 sighting but as those accounts were 664 00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:45,490 occurring in in Denmark over in Illinois 665 00:29:50,380 --> 00:29:48,590 there were two sightings Illinois one in 666 00:29:53,710 --> 00:29:50,390 Illinois one in Wisconsin on the same 667 00:29:57,340 --> 00:29:53,720 night involving a 200-foot triangular 668 00:30:00,370 --> 00:29:57,350 object and while all of this is going on 669 00:30:03,730 --> 00:30:00,380 within a week's period of time there was 670 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:03,740 a intelligence report in Project Blue 671 00:30:09,550 --> 00:30:05,810 Book involving two fishermen that were 672 00:30:12,910 --> 00:30:09,560 in Sumatra Indonesia that observed this 673 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:12,920 large triangular object move over their 674 00:30:19,330 --> 00:30:16,610 fishing boat and it described that there 675 00:30:21,940 --> 00:30:19,340 were these lights on each point and 676 00:30:24,460 --> 00:30:21,950 there were smoke billowing out of each 677 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:24,470 point and that was I've never ever heard 678 00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:27,050 of any type of a mission like that and I 679 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:29,390 you know sheer speculation on my part by 680 00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:31,850 speculated was this a rare instance of 681 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:33,350 one of these objects and some type of 682 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:35,930 mechanical distress but I think it's 683 00:30:40,570 --> 00:30:38,210 worthy to note that Air Force 684 00:30:43,150 --> 00:30:40,580 intelligence officers deemed it credible 685 00:30:44,260 --> 00:30:43,160 enough and again probably in the context 686 00:30:47,380 --> 00:30:44,270 of these other reports they were 687 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:47,390 receiving worldwide to actually file an 688 00:30:51,250 --> 00:30:49,490 air intelligence report documenting this 689 00:30:53,860 --> 00:30:51,260 and in making it part of Air Force 690 00:30:56,290 --> 00:30:53,870 project Bluebook files wow that is 691 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:56,300 amazing so we have a question a couple 692 00:31:00,400 --> 00:30:58,010 of questions up on the message board and 693 00:31:04,570 --> 00:31:00,410 one is a lot of times you hear about 694 00:31:07,540 --> 00:31:04,580 these craft flying very low altitudes 695 00:31:08,620 --> 00:31:07,550 right over the treetops as you said you 696 00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:08,630 know a lot of times you'll hear the 697 00:31:13,660 --> 00:31:10,940 description like a football-field-sized 698 00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:13,670 or something like that yes are they ever 699 00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:17,860 observed at higher altitudes they are 700 00:31:23,260 --> 00:31:21,590 again fairly rare in in the general 701 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:23,270 scheme of reporting that I've been able 702 00:31:30,670 --> 00:31:27,050 to document the Chilean Air Force in 703 00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:30,680 1980 actually had two incidents where 704 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:35,120 the triangular UFOs were being tracked 705 00:31:40,370 --> 00:31:38,450 on radar and jet interceptors were sent 706 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:40,380 up to identify and possibly enter 707 00:31:49,550 --> 00:31:45,930 these UFOs and the pilot kept a captain 708 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:49,560 Danilo Catalan Fortius was able to 709 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:51,810 establish visual contact with one of the 710 00:31:57,050 --> 00:31:54,210 objects which he described as large dark 711 00:31:59,480 --> 00:31:57,060 and triangular but these were high high 712 00:32:01,820 --> 00:31:59,490 altitude sightings and apparently the 713 00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:01,830 objects were departing as a result of 714 00:32:06,590 --> 00:32:04,500 the Jets closing in on them you know 715 00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:06,600 during this attempted identification 716 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:08,190 and/or intercept 717 00:32:15,860 --> 00:32:11,970 there are other accounts of relatively 718 00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:15,870 high altitude triangular UFOs now just 719 00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,780 just to make a little point here in in 720 00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:21,120 examining these reports I don't accept 721 00:32:27,470 --> 00:32:24,150 every reported face value and regarding 722 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:27,480 high altitude sightings in 1966 there 723 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:31,050 was a report of a triangular UFO that 724 00:32:35,660 --> 00:32:33,210 garnered worldwide media attention I 725 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:35,670 have many original newspaper clippings 726 00:32:42,860 --> 00:32:40,410 with a photo of said triangular UFO but 727 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:42,870 later it was determined estimated that 728 00:32:46,820 --> 00:32:44,250 what this was was actually a 729 00:32:50,510 --> 00:32:46,830 high-altitude balloon which when viewed 730 00:32:52,610 --> 00:32:50,520 from directly below had the shape of a 731 00:32:56,690 --> 00:32:52,620 triangle but in fact it was more of an 732 00:32:59,600 --> 00:32:56,700 inverted pyramid and there's a French 733 00:33:02,630 --> 00:32:59,610 research balloon that was also an 734 00:33:05,690 --> 00:33:02,640 explanation for a triangular UFO 735 00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:05,700 sighting in Riga Latvia that was in the 736 00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:08,880 Soviet UFO FILES and they were able to 737 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:10,740 film that and in that particular 738 00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:13,110 instance it was high altitude triangular 739 00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:16,110 but it also was semi-transparent and 740 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:18,950 somewhat reflective and the 741 00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:20,850 investigators ultimately determined it 742 00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:22,200 must have been a high altitude French 743 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:25,350 research balloon and so you know when I 744 00:33:29,210 --> 00:33:27,090 come across these reports I tried to do 745 00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:29,220 a fair fairly good job of vetting the 746 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:31,590 reports mm-hm and separating the wheat 747 00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:33,690 from the chaff you know in putting these 748 00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:36,510 cases together my book now a lot of 749 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:38,340 times you will hear what you just 750 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:39,290 mentioned it's sort of like a 751 00:33:46,130 --> 00:33:43,290 translucent and also let's for instance 752 00:33:49,010 --> 00:33:46,140 the Phoenix lights you hear about these 753 00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:49,020 sort of orbs that are underneath them 754 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:51,480 sort of like a really unique color 755 00:33:57,980 --> 00:33:54,330 glowing a lot of these trying 756 00:34:02,149 --> 00:33:57,990 those have that they do but I will say 757 00:34:04,009 --> 00:34:02,159 this of all the common patterns the 758 00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:04,019 common consistencies characteristics 759 00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:06,360 that I've found with the triangles what 760 00:34:11,930 --> 00:34:08,399 you're touching on the lighting patterns 761 00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:11,940 that seems to be the most variable and I 762 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:13,919 don't know really how to explain that 763 00:34:17,419 --> 00:34:15,690 again you know Martin we we have more 764 00:34:22,339 --> 00:34:17,429 questions and answers with regard to 765 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:22,349 these these objects but I do tend to 766 00:34:26,359 --> 00:34:24,570 lean towards the idea and I'm just gonna 767 00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,369 leave it at that I'm certainly not sold 768 00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,560 on the idea but you know at some point 769 00:34:31,879 --> 00:34:30,000 we have to you know separate ourselves 770 00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:31,889 from all the facts were gathering and at 771 00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:33,899 some point as a researcher you have to 772 00:34:38,180 --> 00:34:35,820 speculate a little bit I try not to go 773 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:38,190 down that slippery slope too much but I 774 00:34:42,169 --> 00:34:40,050 think that these lights due to the 775 00:34:44,690 --> 00:34:42,179 shifting patterns due to the variability 776 00:34:47,419 --> 00:34:44,700 that the lights may in fact be some 777 00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:47,429 inherent part of the propulsion system 778 00:34:55,099 --> 00:34:50,990 and based on manoeuvring based on 779 00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,109 acceleration deceleration etc that were 780 00:34:59,359 --> 00:34:57,119 probably seeing variable lights 781 00:35:01,790 --> 00:34:59,369 displayed as a direct result of the 782 00:35:04,820 --> 00:35:01,800 propulsion system that's involved in 783 00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:04,830 propelling these objects but yes Phoenix 784 00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:06,710 lights was certainly interesting 785 00:35:13,460 --> 00:35:09,030 interesting thing about that is many of 786 00:35:15,530 --> 00:35:13,470 the accounts back in 1997 they describe 787 00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,540 as the object went overhead they could 788 00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:17,520 see these lights that were recessed and 789 00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:19,800 I think that's an important important 790 00:35:24,260 --> 00:35:22,200 point to bring out that these aren't 791 00:35:26,359 --> 00:35:24,270 just simply lights floating around and 792 00:35:28,849 --> 00:35:26,369 certainly you know I tried to weed 793 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:28,859 through accounts in the Blue Book files 794 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:30,450 and Ministry of Defense files where 795 00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:32,250 people simply saw three points of light 796 00:35:35,930 --> 00:35:34,320 because let's be honest Martin that 797 00:35:37,820 --> 00:35:35,940 could be just that it could be three 798 00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:37,830 separate independent light sources just 799 00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:40,320 flying in a triangular formation but 800 00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:43,140 like the Phoenix lights case where you 801 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:46,320 have multiple witnesses describing these 802 00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:47,010 lights 803 00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:50,070 apparently affixed to to some solid 804 00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:53,339 rigid platform that blocked out the 805 00:35:57,829 --> 00:35:56,220 stars as it moved overhead I think we 806 00:35:59,210 --> 00:35:57,839 need to take a step back and look at 807 00:36:01,520 --> 00:35:59,220 those accounts a little bit more 808 00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:01,530 critically and try to evaluate what are 809 00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:04,710 we dealing with here right right another 810 00:36:08,090 --> 00:36:06,780 pardon me another question up on the 811 00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:08,100 board here 812 00:36:16,910 --> 00:36:11,160 if you're considering just to consider 813 00:36:19,820 --> 00:36:16,920 the extraterrestrial hypotheses which 814 00:36:21,470 --> 00:36:19,830 alien race is associated with triangles 815 00:36:23,870 --> 00:36:21,480 has you have you ever heard of that you 816 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:23,880 know like the greys Nordics reptilians 817 00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:24,810 is something like that 818 00:36:30,830 --> 00:36:27,240 has anyone ever associated a being with 819 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:30,840 a triangle they have now let me preface 820 00:36:36,020 --> 00:36:33,450 this by saying that I haven't personally 821 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:36,030 come across in any any credible accounts 822 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:37,290 that I would be willing to you know 823 00:36:42,650 --> 00:36:41,850 discuss but a dear colleague of mine in 824 00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:42,660 the UK 825 00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:45,180 mr. Omar Fowler who I always like to pay 826 00:36:51,170 --> 00:36:48,660 credit two years ago wrote two small 827 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:51,180 monographs on the triangular UFO mystery 828 00:36:56,750 --> 00:36:53,130 which he's extensively investigated in 829 00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:56,760 the UK and I wanted him to be part of my 830 00:37:01,609 --> 00:36:58,980 book because really it was his work that 831 00:37:04,460 --> 00:37:01,619 served as kind of a precursor to me 832 00:37:06,380 --> 00:37:04,470 deciding to go ahead and you know take 833 00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:06,390 the information that he documented and 834 00:37:12,590 --> 00:37:09,300 really try to expand on it even further 835 00:37:15,940 --> 00:37:12,600 and in in my book mr. Omar Fowler 836 00:37:19,130 --> 00:37:15,950 recounts one or two instances involving 837 00:37:22,010 --> 00:37:19,140 apparently an abduction scenario alien 838 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:22,020 abduction scenario associated with a 839 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:24,930 triangular UFO now I've had a lot of 840 00:37:30,020 --> 00:37:27,570 people tell me during lectures you know 841 00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:30,030 have you investigated the abduction 842 00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:32,550 mystery and the aliens in reference to 843 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:34,980 triangle as I said well up to this point 844 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:36,810 you have to appreciate mine was more of 845 00:37:41,060 --> 00:37:39,090 a historical endeavor and when you're 846 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:41,070 looking at newspaper accounts from the 847 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:43,770 the late 40s the early 50s and certainly 848 00:37:48,290 --> 00:37:45,090 even accounts going back to the late 849 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:48,300 1800s that was not discussed at the time 850 00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:50,970 it wasn't written about so just by 851 00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:52,470 virtue of the fact I was focusing on 852 00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:54,359 older cases I just didn't come across 853 00:37:57,890 --> 00:37:55,950 that now certainly on the internet 854 00:38:01,400 --> 00:37:57,900 there's many claims many stories of 855 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:01,410 alien abduction and triangular UFOs I 856 00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:03,810 just I just really can't speak to that 857 00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:05,040 just simply because I haven't really 858 00:38:09,980 --> 00:38:06,720 devoted a lot of research into that 859 00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:09,990 particular area sure that that makes 860 00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:14,880 total sense to me now someone else on 861 00:38:20,270 --> 00:38:16,500 the message board wanted to know have 862 00:38:22,670 --> 00:38:20,280 you ever seen I'm not you personally but 863 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:22,680 have you ever heard of site 864 00:38:27,950 --> 00:38:25,650 of different types of crafts along with 865 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:27,960 the triangle UFOs and while we're going 866 00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:28,410 there 867 00:38:34,430 --> 00:38:31,049 how about multiple triangle UFOs at the 868 00:38:36,859 --> 00:38:34,440 same time two two great questions I'm 869 00:38:38,809 --> 00:38:36,869 glad you asked me those Martin well let 870 00:38:41,029 --> 00:38:38,819 me let me ask let me answer the second 871 00:38:44,510 --> 00:38:41,039 question first while I was down in 872 00:38:50,930 --> 00:38:44,520 Florida I met a gentleman and his wife 873 00:38:55,460 --> 00:38:50,940 who had in April of last year April of 874 00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:55,470 2014 had observed nine triangular 875 00:39:00,079 --> 00:38:58,260 objects one after the other 876 00:39:04,609 --> 00:39:00,089 flying low altitude over their property 877 00:39:08,089 --> 00:39:04,619 and this involved at least two neighbors 878 00:39:11,260 --> 00:39:08,099 and possibly involves some of these 879 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:11,270 objects being photographed or filmed and 880 00:39:15,410 --> 00:39:13,770 this is another interview that I'll be 881 00:39:18,140 --> 00:39:15,420 conducting this weekend to get 882 00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:18,150 additional information but I sat and and 883 00:39:23,870 --> 00:39:19,680 spoke with the man and I'll be speaking 884 00:39:26,180 --> 00:39:23,880 with his wife as well and it this has 885 00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:26,190 been investigated by MUFON and I'm 886 00:39:30,890 --> 00:39:28,049 certainly going to be interviewing all 887 00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:30,900 of the witnesses involved but that is 888 00:39:36,529 --> 00:39:33,900 just one example a fairly recent example 889 00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:36,539 of multiple triangular UFOs being 890 00:39:42,859 --> 00:39:39,480 sighted and yeah what I am finding is 891 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:42,869 that a vast majority of these triangular 892 00:39:49,940 --> 00:39:46,490 reports typically involve at least two 893 00:39:52,970 --> 00:39:49,950 triangular UFOs on the evening of March 894 00:39:56,539 --> 00:39:52,980 29th 1989 over the Loch Aleph a dam and 895 00:39:57,650 --> 00:39:56,549 near the village of upon the there were 896 00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:57,660 two Jean d'armes 897 00:40:01,819 --> 00:40:00,000 who had observed initially a large 898 00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:01,829 triangular platform hovering over a 899 00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:04,680 field they then watched it move over at 900 00:40:08,750 --> 00:40:06,180 the La Jolla Fay dam and as they 901 00:40:11,299 --> 00:40:08,760 observed it for several minutes suddenly 902 00:40:13,789 --> 00:40:11,309 another triangular UFO that matched its 903 00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:13,799 appearance came up over a hill over a 904 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:16,020 rise of trees and they observed two 905 00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:18,930 triangular UFOs now going through the 906 00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:20,910 historical record I found numerous 907 00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:23,760 accounts involving multiple triangular 908 00:40:30,799 --> 00:40:27,390 UFOs and some even in the military files 909 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:30,809 which is extremely interesting in the UK 910 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:32,970 they've had a number of such reports and 911 00:40:37,620 --> 00:40:35,410 in 1949 912 00:40:39,779 --> 00:40:37,630 over Maryland there was a daylight 913 00:40:43,170 --> 00:40:39,789 sighting by multiple witnesses that was 914 00:40:46,259 --> 00:40:43,180 interviewed and investigated by Air 915 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:46,269 Force investigators at the time and it 916 00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:48,730 involved daylight sighting of at least 917 00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,390 12 to 15 triangular UFOs and it's 918 00:40:57,779 --> 00:40:54,160 interesting that Air Force investigators 919 00:40:59,579 --> 00:40:57,789 were very open to the testimony of this 920 00:41:01,559 --> 00:40:59,589 individual who was a former Air Force 921 00:41:04,049 --> 00:41:01,569 tech sergeant and Air Force 922 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:04,059 investigators also interviewed his 923 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:06,250 neighbors down the entire city block who 924 00:41:12,660 --> 00:41:07,930 had stepped outside to observe the 925 00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:12,670 spectacle this was actually one that one 926 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:14,950 of the producers for a documentary I 927 00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:17,890 just just worked on last year which is 928 00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:19,119 going to be airing here in the States 929 00:41:24,269 --> 00:41:22,240 this spring the producer who read my 930 00:41:27,150 --> 00:41:24,279 book was very interested in that report 931 00:41:28,799 --> 00:41:27,160 and it was well documented and there's 932 00:41:30,839 --> 00:41:28,809 another one that they're also going to 933 00:41:33,809 --> 00:41:30,849 feature besides that case and in the 934 00:41:37,049 --> 00:41:33,819 episode and this involved in f-86 Sabre 935 00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:37,059 jet pilot over Albany Georgia in 1953 936 00:41:43,380 --> 00:41:40,660 who observed a very distinct sharp white 937 00:41:44,999 --> 00:41:43,390 light which caught his attention because 938 00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:45,009 it just seemed to have a very sharply 939 00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:47,440 defined edge to it compared to stars or 940 00:41:51,900 --> 00:41:49,119 planets that have that scintillation and 941 00:41:54,329 --> 00:41:51,910 twinkling and he thought well I'll 942 00:41:56,279 --> 00:41:54,339 increase my altitude and if the object 943 00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:56,289 gets larger then obviously it's 944 00:41:59,309 --> 00:41:57,730 something within the atmosphere if it 945 00:42:02,190 --> 00:41:59,319 doesn't change perspective it must be a 946 00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:02,200 star or planet as he did so within a 947 00:42:05,819 --> 00:42:04,089 matter of minutes he realized that the 948 00:42:08,670 --> 00:42:05,829 light that was above him was now beneath 949 00:42:11,759 --> 00:42:08,680 him which immediately ruled out any type 950 00:42:14,249 --> 00:42:11,769 of astronomical explanation and as he 951 00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:14,259 then began to dicen and approach the 952 00:42:19,170 --> 00:42:15,910 object the light changed into an 953 00:42:22,049 --> 00:42:19,180 equilateral triangle which then divided 954 00:42:25,170 --> 00:42:22,059 into two triangles and then they 955 00:42:28,039 --> 00:42:25,180 immediately disappeared so yes we have 956 00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:28,049 accounts of multiple triangular UFOs and 957 00:42:35,539 --> 00:42:31,660 so we have that and they have also been 958 00:42:39,150 --> 00:42:35,549 cited to your first question with other 959 00:42:41,009 --> 00:42:39,160 UFOs we'll talk a little bit about this 960 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:41,019 in the second hour when we talk about 961 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:43,930 the January 5th incident but suffice it 962 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:45,970 to say that the Soto pepsin 963 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:47,890 investigators in Belgium as well as 964 00:42:52,019 --> 00:42:49,210 elsewhere 965 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:52,029 have investigated these triangular UFOs 966 00:43:00,299 --> 00:42:56,170 being seen with other shaped UFOs 967 00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:00,309 specifically rectangular UFOs on that 968 00:43:06,660 --> 00:43:02,910 evening of March 29 that I mentioned 969 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:06,670 1989 the dispatcher Albert Kreutz at the 970 00:43:11,490 --> 00:43:09,250 upand Police Station stepped out on his 971 00:43:14,279 --> 00:43:11,500 balcony and observed a triangular UFO 972 00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:14,289 float off in the distance it was quickly 973 00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:17,049 replaced by a rectangular UFO with 974 00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,500 bright lights at each corner now in my 975 00:43:25,410 --> 00:43:22,480 lectures that I do across the country 976 00:43:28,620 --> 00:43:25,420 I showed his sketch and then I do a 977 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:28,630 side-by-side comparison of a sketch that 978 00:43:36,510 --> 00:43:32,410 was drawn five years previously by a 979 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:36,520 witness in New York the state of New 980 00:43:40,589 --> 00:43:38,890 York and this was a housewife and her 981 00:43:43,740 --> 00:43:40,599 daughter coming back from the grocery 982 00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:43,750 store who observed this was in the a 983 00:43:49,620 --> 00:43:47,440 profiles observed a triangular UFO which 984 00:43:51,539 --> 00:43:49,630 disappeared behind the trees and then 985 00:43:55,529 --> 00:43:51,549 shortly thereafter it was replaced with 986 00:43:58,349 --> 00:43:55,539 a rectangular UFO with four bright 987 00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:58,359 lights one at each corner and when you 988 00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:00,640 do the sketches side by side they're 989 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:05,230 virtually identical amazing one of the 990 00:44:09,779 --> 00:44:07,210 things that a couple of times I've heard 991 00:44:13,740 --> 00:44:09,789 this situation one is Rendlesham forest 992 00:44:15,809 --> 00:44:13,750 and yes another incident a friend of 993 00:44:18,450 --> 00:44:15,819 mine cited this years ago in 994 00:44:21,359 --> 00:44:18,460 Massachusetts where an object actually 995 00:44:22,980 --> 00:44:21,369 burst into lights is that something 996 00:44:26,910 --> 00:44:22,990 you've heard more than those you know 997 00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:26,920 just a few times as far as the triangle 998 00:44:31,559 --> 00:44:29,680 but bursting into light yeah or changing 999 00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:31,569 you mentioned just a minute ago that one 1000 00:44:39,269 --> 00:44:35,230 divided or something yes we have 1001 00:44:41,490 --> 00:44:39,279 accounts of triangular UFOs merging in 1002 00:44:44,250 --> 00:44:41,500 other words two triangular UFOs merging 1003 00:44:46,319 --> 00:44:44,260 into one we also have accounts as I 1004 00:44:51,059 --> 00:44:46,329 mentioned with the 1953 Albany Georgia 1005 00:44:53,549 --> 00:44:51,069 case of triangles dividing now to even 1006 00:44:56,940 --> 00:44:53,559 stretch the imagination even further we 1007 00:45:02,060 --> 00:44:56,950 have accounts of UFOs triangular UFOs 1008 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:02,070 that appear to morph or change right in 1009 00:45:08,210 --> 00:45:04,370 the eyewitness we had a famous case from 1010 00:45:10,610 --> 00:45:08,220 1954 British overseas Airways er case 1011 00:45:15,110 --> 00:45:10,620 and this was known as the flying 1012 00:45:18,110 --> 00:45:15,120 jellyfish case and the pilot a captain 1013 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:18,120 Howard was flying from New York to over 1014 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:21,170 Labrador and had observed this 1015 00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:24,690 triangular UFO with smaller attendant 1016 00:45:30,110 --> 00:45:27,510 objects that were flying alongside it it 1017 00:45:33,530 --> 00:45:30,120 kept pace with their plane essentially 1018 00:45:38,060 --> 00:45:33,540 the same altitude the crew observed this 1019 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:38,070 for about 18 minutes the the passengers 1020 00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:41,370 observed it as well and at one point 1021 00:45:45,460 --> 00:45:42,960 captain Howard's attention was 1022 00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:45,470 distracted and when he looked back he 1023 00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:48,150 asked I believe it was Lee Boyd the 1024 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:50,160 navigator on the plane where did the 1025 00:45:54,620 --> 00:45:52,290 smaller objects disappear to and he said 1026 00:45:56,540 --> 00:45:54,630 he replied to captain Howard well it 1027 00:45:59,120 --> 00:45:56,550 appears that the smaller objects went 1028 00:46:01,310 --> 00:45:59,130 into the large one and then they 1029 00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:01,320 observed this large object shifting 1030 00:46:05,740 --> 00:46:03,960 morphing changing shape and this was 1031 00:46:09,050 --> 00:46:05,750 well documented if some of the original 1032 00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:09,060 British and American newspapers from 1033 00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:12,510 1954 that chronicled this and have 1034 00:46:18,860 --> 00:46:15,060 sketches from captain Howard and some of 1035 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:18,870 the crew now that's a situation where 1036 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:20,490 the odd we have smaller attendant 1037 00:46:26,890 --> 00:46:23,450 objects going into the triangular craft 1038 00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:26,900 going back to the the Danish wave of 1039 00:46:31,330 --> 00:46:29,280 1957 that I referred to earlier at the 1040 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:31,340 Reuters news article that I found 1041 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:34,410 references the Danish village of 1042 00:46:41,060 --> 00:46:37,410 brochure in which a woman reportedly saw 1043 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:41,070 a large dark silent triangular object 1044 00:46:45,730 --> 00:46:43,170 low altitude now doesn't that sound very 1045 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:45,740 very similar to modern-day accounts and 1046 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:48,690 she described it as she observed the 1047 00:46:54,170 --> 00:46:51,210 object hovering silently smaller 1048 00:46:57,140 --> 00:46:54,180 horseshoe shaped objects each emitting a 1049 00:46:59,930 --> 00:46:57,150 strong light came out of the larger 1050 00:47:03,130 --> 00:46:59,940 triangular object now this is Reuters 1051 00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:03,140 news service that ran the story in 1958 1052 00:47:11,090 --> 00:47:07,920 what is of interest is that the news the 1053 00:47:13,250 --> 00:47:11,100 news reporters found at least 20 other 1054 00:47:15,590 --> 00:47:13,260 villagers that corroborated the woman's 1055 00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:20,050 amazing now would you consider the 1056 00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:23,250 triangular sightings on the rise 1057 00:47:28,250 --> 00:47:25,730 compared to other shaped crafts 1058 00:47:30,650 --> 00:47:28,260 absolutely matter of fact at the 1059 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:30,660 beginning of my book I you know we can 1060 00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,970 talk about frequency we can talk about 1061 00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:35,280 increasing sightings but I really like 1062 00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:37,440 to try to put some numbers to it and as 1063 00:47:41,060 --> 00:47:38,940 you can appreciate we have different 1064 00:47:44,540 --> 00:47:41,070 series of statistics that exist within 1065 00:47:46,490 --> 00:47:44,550 the UFO field but in 2004 during an 1066 00:47:48,290 --> 00:47:46,500 early stage of my investigation and 1067 00:47:49,940 --> 00:47:48,300 trying to start looking at patterns in 1068 00:47:52,730 --> 00:47:49,950 the historical record regarding these 1069 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:52,740 objects I decided to check my dear 1070 00:47:56,210 --> 00:47:54,570 friend and colleague Peter Davenport at 1071 00:47:57,740 --> 00:47:56,220 the national UFO Reporting Center and 1072 00:48:00,590 --> 00:47:57,750 check the statistics that they had 1073 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:00,600 posted at the time and in November of 1074 00:48:07,790 --> 00:48:04,970 2004 I was looking at the breakdown of 1075 00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:07,800 objects reported based on shape or based 1076 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:10,740 on description and I was amazed to find 1077 00:48:18,740 --> 00:48:15,530 that the category designated as light 1078 00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:18,750 just light in the sky or report of a 1079 00:48:23,450 --> 00:48:20,790 light they had five thousand five 1080 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:23,460 hundred and nine reports on file now I 1081 00:48:27,230 --> 00:48:25,050 think we'll all agree any conservative 1082 00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:27,240 investigator out there will agree that 1083 00:48:31,460 --> 00:48:29,250 could be Venus that could be a satellite 1084 00:48:33,610 --> 00:48:31,470 it's a pretty vague description when you 1085 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:33,620 just see a light in the nighttime sky 1086 00:48:39,050 --> 00:48:36,690 but five thousand five hundred nine 1087 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:39,060 reports of Lights the second runner-up 1088 00:48:45,620 --> 00:48:43,290 in 2004 was triangle two thousand seven 1089 00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:45,630 hundred and eighty two reports and when 1090 00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:46,920 I do my lectures I always like to 1091 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:50,310 compare that to the disks flying disks 1092 00:48:55,130 --> 00:48:52,290 that were reported two thousand four 1093 00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:55,140 hundred thirty nine so flying disks are 1094 00:49:01,310 --> 00:48:58,170 you know basically coming in third 1095 00:49:02,510 --> 00:49:01,320 you know after triangular UFOs and I 1096 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:02,520 thought well that was interesting 1097 00:49:05,810 --> 00:49:04,290 and that's that some numbers that at 1098 00:49:07,610 --> 00:49:05,820 least we can look at and admittedly 1099 00:49:09,290 --> 00:49:07,620 those are raw reports all of those have 1100 00:49:11,210 --> 00:49:09,300 not been vetted and investigated 1101 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:11,220 necessarily but at least gives us an 1102 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:13,530 idea of what are people reporting 1103 00:49:19,250 --> 00:49:15,810 regardless of the legitimacy or the 1104 00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:19,260 veracity of the reports well into 2012 I 1105 00:49:22,370 --> 00:49:21,150 was doing another lecture and I decided 1106 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:22,380 you know what I'm going to revisit those 1107 00:49:27,890 --> 00:49:24,570 statistics just to see if the the same 1108 00:49:30,140 --> 00:49:27,900 pattern tends to play out and now keep 1109 00:49:33,530 --> 00:49:30,150 in mind these this is accumulative total 1110 00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:33,540 but in February 2012 the category of 1111 00:49:38,930 --> 00:49:35,790 light there was thirteen thousand nine 1112 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:38,940 hundred ninety seven reports second to 1113 00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:43,010 that was the category of triangle 6957 1114 00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:46,800 and again the category of disc was five 1115 00:49:51,740 --> 00:49:49,110 thousand two hundred and eighty eight so 1116 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:51,750 we do seem to see an increase in 1117 00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:54,330 frequency of these triangular UFOs being 1118 00:49:59,210 --> 00:49:56,910 reported and I will concede that that 1119 00:50:01,130 --> 00:49:59,220 might be due to the fact that some of 1120 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:01,140 these triangles being reported could be 1121 00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:03,690 military aircraft but I don't like to 1122 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:05,220 talk in absolutes I don't like to say 1123 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:07,890 all or none as some of the skeptics like 1124 00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:10,770 to do but I do think that some of these 1125 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:12,960 triangular UFOs might be military but 1126 00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:14,970 when you look at the history when you 1127 00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:17,280 look at the consistency and you compare 1128 00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:20,280 modern reports to these early reports I 1129 00:50:24,110 --> 00:50:22,440 think we at least need to maintain an 1130 00:50:25,550 --> 00:50:24,120 open mind regarding the subject that 1131 00:50:28,970 --> 00:50:25,560 these may not necessarily be 1132 00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:28,980 manufactured here on earth now do you 1133 00:50:35,060 --> 00:50:32,700 actually see more of a concentration in 1134 00:50:39,010 --> 00:50:35,070 any certain country like Canada or the 1135 00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:39,020 United States over say a European nation 1136 00:50:45,050 --> 00:50:42,240 well I certainly had a lot of accounts 1137 00:50:49,490 --> 00:50:45,060 from the United States I have a lot of 1138 00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:49,500 reports from the UK but I'm always very 1139 00:50:55,130 --> 00:50:52,680 quick to add that I think part of the 1140 00:50:57,230 --> 00:50:55,140 problem and I do call it a problem not 1141 00:50:59,420 --> 00:50:57,240 just triangular UFO research but UFO 1142 00:51:02,960 --> 00:50:59,430 research in general is as you can 1143 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:02,970 appreciate a simple language barrier I'm 1144 00:51:07,070 --> 00:51:05,130 sure that we have some South American 1145 00:51:08,750 --> 00:51:07,080 reports that were just not hearing about 1146 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:08,760 because they may have only been you know 1147 00:51:14,780 --> 00:51:11,610 published in you know Portuguese or 1148 00:51:17,630 --> 00:51:14,790 Spanish and I was just talking to a 1149 00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:17,640 friend and researcher out in California 1150 00:51:23,090 --> 00:51:20,310 mr. Ted bonnet and he was asking me 1151 00:51:24,980 --> 00:51:23,100 about reports from China and really when 1152 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:24,990 you look on the internet we don't see a 1153 00:51:28,850 --> 00:51:27,210 lot of reports yet when you look at the 1154 00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:28,860 country when you look at the country of 1155 00:51:33,470 --> 00:51:30,270 China I mean my god how many 1156 00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:33,480 eyewitnesses do you have but we have 1157 00:51:38,330 --> 00:51:35,520 language barriers obviously that come 1158 00:51:40,610 --> 00:51:38,340 into play and if we could break down 1159 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:40,620 those language barriers I think we'd be 1160 00:51:45,950 --> 00:51:42,930 surprised and shocked at the 1161 00:51:48,260 --> 00:51:45,960 of reports and when it'd be nice if we 1162 00:51:50,180 --> 00:51:48,270 could have an international gathering of 1163 00:51:52,970 --> 00:51:50,190 UFO case files where we could put it 1164 00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:52,980 into a centralized database and then we 1165 00:51:57,140 --> 00:51:54,180 could really start looking at 1166 00:51:59,120 --> 00:51:57,150 frequencies and statistics but until 1167 00:52:00,740 --> 00:51:59,130 then I'm afraid we're still faced with 1168 00:52:02,210 --> 00:52:00,750 some language barriers which is why 1169 00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:02,220 primarily I have accounts from the 1170 00:52:07,099 --> 00:52:05,250 United States and the UK we had a 1171 00:52:11,349 --> 00:52:07,109 correspondent for a while there in China 1172 00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:11,359 but his email keeps bouncing then a 1173 00:52:17,299 --> 00:52:15,720 month now a question up on the message 1174 00:52:22,190 --> 00:52:17,309 board and I think it's a pretty good one 1175 00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:22,200 are any reports of these as US owes you 1176 00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:27,839 know underwater yes well I I am familiar 1177 00:52:32,450 --> 00:52:30,480 with the you know US owes in general but 1178 00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:32,460 I don't have any accounts of these 1179 00:52:38,299 --> 00:52:34,920 triangular UFOs being sited underwater 1180 00:52:39,770 --> 00:52:38,309 or emerging from water which is 1181 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:39,780 interesting because certainly we do have 1182 00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:43,770 other UFOs reportedly in association 1183 00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:46,400 with water or coming in or out of water 1184 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:48,569 one thing I would like to add to that 1185 00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:50,970 though and again it's interesting to see 1186 00:52:54,410 --> 00:52:52,710 what the reports reflect it's also 1187 00:52:56,780 --> 00:52:54,420 interesting to see what what you don't 1188 00:52:58,880 --> 00:52:56,790 find in the reports and I'm really 1189 00:53:00,740 --> 00:52:58,890 amazed that after just calling through 1190 00:53:02,539 --> 00:53:00,750 hundreds literally hundreds of these 1191 00:53:05,210 --> 00:53:02,549 triangular UFO reports over the last 1192 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:05,220 several decades I have not been able to 1193 00:53:10,220 --> 00:53:08,130 find one credible and I emphasize that 1194 00:53:12,319 --> 00:53:10,230 I've heard some some rather curious 1195 00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:12,329 accounts but I really don't deem them as 1196 00:53:19,130 --> 00:53:15,839 credible but I don't have one credible 1197 00:53:23,270 --> 00:53:19,140 account of a triangular UFO landing 1198 00:53:27,260 --> 00:53:23,280 touching ground or taking off which is 1199 00:53:28,789 --> 00:53:27,270 interesting well well you know the the 1200 00:53:32,510 --> 00:53:28,799 one in Rendlesham of course I know that 1201 00:53:35,299 --> 00:53:32,520 was a small one but it was purported to 1202 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:35,309 you know land on the ground with those 1203 00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:39,930 tripod marks yes yes that is the one 1204 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:42,240 example and certainly let me be very 1205 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:44,490 clear I would not consider that a non 1206 00:53:48,859 --> 00:53:46,650 credible case I certainly do find that a 1207 00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:48,869 very credible case but I'm hesitant to 1208 00:53:53,569 --> 00:53:51,839 put it into the category I do mention it 1209 00:53:56,420 --> 00:53:53,579 in my book by the way just in passing 1210 00:53:59,420 --> 00:53:56,430 but I don't necessarily put it in the 1211 00:54:02,750 --> 00:53:59,430 category of these large-scale triangular 1212 00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:02,760 folks but you bring up a very good point 1213 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:04,380 Martin that that was a very good case 1214 00:54:08,810 --> 00:54:06,810 and certainly that was described and 1215 00:54:11,390 --> 00:54:08,820 discussed and well documented at the 1216 00:54:14,330 --> 00:54:11,400 time but as far as these large objects 1217 00:54:15,620 --> 00:54:14,340 are concerned we just simply have no 1218 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:15,630 credible accounts of these things 1219 00:54:21,380 --> 00:54:17,970 landing or taking off leaving scorched 1220 00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:21,390 marks or depressed vegetation again like 1221 00:54:25,370 --> 00:54:23,400 we did you know several decades ago with 1222 00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:25,380 the flying saucer reports where we had a 1223 00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:27,420 number of those you know that have been 1224 00:54:35,870 --> 00:54:29,730 investigated by mr. Ted Phillips over 1225 00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:35,880 the last several decades right there was 1226 00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:38,760 a MUFON investigator that was on our 1227 00:54:45,020 --> 00:54:41,910 show you may have you may even know her 1228 00:54:46,070 --> 00:54:45,030 chase kutsuki i know ever we've never 1229 00:54:48,890 --> 00:54:46,080 had the opportunity to meet 1230 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:48,900 unfortunately well she has quite a story 1231 00:54:54,350 --> 00:54:51,570 about a triangle craft she went down to 1232 00:54:57,500 --> 00:54:54,360 investigate and basically tell this 1233 00:54:59,060 --> 00:54:57,510 person I believe it was Tennessee tell 1234 00:55:01,100 --> 00:54:59,070 this person that what they were seeing 1235 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:01,110 was you know something else she went 1236 00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:03,450 down there to try it out more or less 1237 00:55:06,410 --> 00:55:05,040 debunk what he was seeing and you know 1238 00:55:08,930 --> 00:55:06,420 he was saying that their back or 1239 00:55:11,390 --> 00:55:08,940 whatever and all of a sudden this big 1240 00:55:14,180 --> 00:55:11,400 huge thing you know she saw it coming 1241 00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:14,190 and went right over them y'all standing 1242 00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:16,260 there together and that really changed 1243 00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:19,770 her mind oh absolutely I was last last 1244 00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:22,620 year I was at the International UFO 1245 00:55:27,230 --> 00:55:25,140 Congress where I spoke and I had a 1246 00:55:28,970 --> 00:55:27,240 chance to sit and chat with mr. Lee 1247 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:28,980 Spiegel from the Huffington Post and 1248 00:55:35,290 --> 00:55:32,250 lately was very happy with my book and 1249 00:55:37,730 --> 00:55:35,300 very happy that I talked about the the 1250 00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:37,740 Lumberton North Carolina wave back in 1251 00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:41,040 1975 and he said well he goes you know I 1252 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:42,960 went down there investigated so yeah I 1253 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:44,490 was as familiar I was reading the 1254 00:55:48,940 --> 00:55:47,130 reports he said yeah but I also saw the 1255 00:55:51,170 --> 00:55:48,950 object and it was a similar situation 1256 00:55:53,570 --> 00:55:51,180 where he went out with some law 1257 00:55:55,370 --> 00:55:53,580 enforcement officers into a mirror field 1258 00:55:57,980 --> 00:55:55,380 where they had seen an object just days 1259 00:55:59,480 --> 00:55:57,990 earlier and as they were standing there 1260 00:56:01,280 --> 00:55:59,490 they saw these lights off in the 1261 00:56:04,100 --> 00:56:01,290 distance that slowly started moving 1262 00:56:08,210 --> 00:56:04,110 towards them and as the object literally 1263 00:56:10,010 --> 00:56:08,220 came overhead the object shown a beam of 1264 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:10,020 light down on the squad 1265 00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:12,210 Carr the surrounding area and Lee and 1266 00:56:17,630 --> 00:56:14,250 all of these police officers that were 1267 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:17,640 with him at the time and so it's one of 1268 00:56:21,020 --> 00:56:19,290 those rare instances as I always like to 1269 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:21,030 mention when I when I cite that case 1270 00:56:25,730 --> 00:56:23,490 that that's one of those rare situations 1271 00:56:27,230 --> 00:56:25,740 like like chase where you go down as an 1272 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:27,240 investigator and you suddenly become a 1273 00:56:34,310 --> 00:56:30,690 participant right well Colonel Charles 1274 00:56:35,690 --> 00:56:34,320 halt he went out there too you know more 1275 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:35,700 or less tell these guys they were crazy 1276 00:56:40,430 --> 00:56:37,770 and then yeah you know changed his life 1277 00:56:42,110 --> 00:56:40,440 totally well I hope Martin eventually I 1278 00:56:44,660 --> 00:56:42,120 can put myself in that category because 1279 00:56:46,550 --> 00:56:44,670 I despite all my academic interest in 1280 00:56:48,590 --> 00:56:46,560 the subject I have yet to see one but I 1281 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:48,600 certainly hope one day I will well we 1282 00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:50,850 certainly need people like you out there 1283 00:56:57,410 --> 00:56:53,730 doing the investigation someone to make 1284 00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:57,420 it more credible than well just just 1285 00:57:01,820 --> 00:56:59,040 your presentation in your thoughts I 1286 00:57:04,670 --> 00:57:01,830 think it really is pretty solid and I'm 1287 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:04,680 glad you're you're doing this we have 1288 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:07,050 just a couple of minutes left before the 1289 00:57:12,650 --> 00:57:10,410 top of the hour and no message is 1290 00:57:16,850 --> 00:57:12,660 flowing in right now so I just want to 1291 00:57:19,250 --> 00:57:16,860 ask one more thing and that is um 1292 00:57:23,060 --> 00:57:19,260 a lot of times you hear about these 1293 00:57:25,070 --> 00:57:23,070 going you know very slow over houses or 1294 00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:25,080 fields or whatever it is has there ever 1295 00:57:29,150 --> 00:57:27,510 been any interrupted cars you know 1296 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:29,160 sometimes you hear about cars stalling 1297 00:57:33,230 --> 00:57:31,050 out and then restarting afterwards have 1298 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:33,240 you ever heard of anything like that not 1299 00:57:37,850 --> 00:57:35,610 so not so much with vehicle interference 1300 00:57:38,450 --> 00:57:37,860 but one of the characteristics which I 1301 00:57:40,130 --> 00:57:38,460 list 1302 00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:40,140 I have primary characteristics and 1303 00:57:44,050 --> 00:57:42,210 secondary characteristics one of the 1304 00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:44,060 secondary characteristics is in fact 1305 00:57:50,030 --> 00:57:47,010 electromagnetic interference apparent 1306 00:57:52,010 --> 00:57:50,040 electromagnetic interference and I 1307 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:52,020 haven't really found any vehicle 1308 00:57:57,140 --> 00:57:54,930 interference cases although I do I must 1309 00:57:58,970 --> 00:57:57,150 add that I do have numerous accounts of 1310 00:58:01,220 --> 00:57:58,980 these triangular UFOs hovering over 1311 00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:01,230 vehicles that are trying to basically 1312 00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:03,990 escape and as the vehicle increased in 1313 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:06,090 speed the triangular UFO increased in 1314 00:58:09,590 --> 00:58:08,010 speed and kept with the individuals I 1315 00:58:11,300 --> 00:58:09,600 have a number of people I've interviewed 1316 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:11,310 here in the States as well as over in 1317 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:13,770 the UK that had similar instances but 1318 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:16,050 none that involved vehicle interference 1319 00:58:21,220 --> 00:58:18,810 but there are some that are in the files 1320 00:58:23,790 --> 00:58:21,230 where there do appear to be some type of 1321 00:58:26,310 --> 00:58:23,800 electromagnetic interference 1322 00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:26,320 there was one in fact again reported by 1323 00:58:32,970 --> 00:58:29,110 a pro and this one occurred in November 1324 00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:32,980 of 1982 in California and the couple was 1325 00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:34,330 he actually camping they were in their 1326 00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:36,640 tent and they heard this humming or 1327 00:58:41,610 --> 00:58:39,310 buzzing sound and they felt like there 1328 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:41,620 was like this extreme static electricity 1329 00:58:46,620 --> 00:58:43,930 like there was a sharp prickling feeling 1330 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:46,630 all over their arms in their body and as 1331 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:49,690 they exited the the tent they saw this 1332 00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:52,090 huge manta ray shaped triangular 1333 00:58:56,820 --> 00:58:54,880 essentially UFO hovering low altitude 1334 00:58:59,040 --> 00:58:56,830 over them and then there was another 1335 00:59:01,820 --> 00:58:59,050 instance in Japan the only one I have 1336 00:59:05,370 --> 00:59:01,830 from Japan courtesy of mr. Omar Fowler 1337 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:05,380 involving a wedding coordinator who was 1338 00:59:09,210 --> 00:59:06,490 actually setting up for a wedding 1339 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:09,220 reception and saw this triangular UFO 1340 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:12,370 fly overhead and investigators were able 1341 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:14,530 to document that in the surrounding area 1342 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:16,210 a number of people had radio 1343 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:19,810 interference at the time interesting 1344 00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:22,330 well we have just one more question I'm 1345 00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,090 going to throw at you and that is have 1346 00:59:29,370 --> 00:59:27,040 you ever seen a really really good 1347 00:59:34,260 --> 00:59:29,380 picture of one of these or a really 1348 00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:34,270 really good video well that's a hard one 1349 00:59:37,610 --> 00:59:35,710 to answer and I'll try to answer it as 1350 00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:37,620 accurately as I can 1351 00:59:41,460 --> 00:59:39,910 obviously for anyone that searches the 1352 00:59:43,350 --> 00:59:41,470 internet or goes on YouTube you're going 1353 00:59:45,330 --> 00:59:43,360 to see some really interesting videos 1354 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:45,340 and really interesting photos of these 1355 00:59:53,370 --> 00:59:49,450 triangular UFOs unfortunately yeah 1356 00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:53,380 exactly Martin there they look real they 1357 00:59:56,940 --> 00:59:55,330 certainly look convincing but you know 1358 00:59:58,830 --> 00:59:56,950 when you've had video analysts tear them 1359 01:00:03,180 --> 00:59:58,840 apart it turns out that it's actually 1360 01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:03,190 CGI and other hoaxes there was actually 1361 01:00:08,220 --> 01:00:05,530 one that I used talking it was a video 1362 01:00:11,130 --> 01:00:08,230 that was filmed in Florida and like I 1363 01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:11,140 said I was recently speaking there and I 1364 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:13,060 show this video that I pulled off of 1365 01:00:16,350 --> 01:00:14,530 YouTube that was filmed by a news 1366 01:00:18,870 --> 01:00:16,360 affiliate in Florida a few years back 1367 01:00:22,050 --> 01:00:18,880 and I use it to illustrate the fact that 1368 01:00:23,340 --> 01:00:22,060 all the video shows is three points of 1369 01:00:25,380 --> 01:00:23,350 light light in a triangular 1370 01:00:27,660 --> 01:00:25,390 configuration with a strobing red light 1371 01:00:30,090 --> 01:00:27,670 in the center but there's no objects in 1372 01:00:31,980 --> 01:00:30,100 the foreground no objects in the 1373 01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:31,990 background I said this could be a 1374 01:00:37,380 --> 01:00:35,410 200-foot triangular UFO hovering over a 1375 01:00:38,910 --> 01:00:37,390 cornfield it could also be a 1376 01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:38,920 three inch models suspended over your 1377 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:40,720 bed on fishing wire in a completely 1378 01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:42,610 darkened room I said we simply don't 1379 01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:45,610 know so we need to be very careful with 1380 01:00:50,700 --> 01:00:49,090 photos and with video I have not seen 1381 01:00:53,580 --> 01:00:50,710 any that have been you know truly 1382 01:00:56,010 --> 01:00:53,590 substantiated but really photos and 1383 01:00:58,650 --> 01:00:56,020 video to me are one of the weakest forms 1384 01:01:00,510 --> 01:00:58,660 of evidence if I can use that word I'm 1385 01:01:02,850 --> 01:01:00,520 more interested in multiple witness 1386 01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:02,860 sightings that are corroborated by radar 1387 01:01:07,170 --> 01:01:04,960 I think those are the more compelling 1388 01:01:10,530 --> 01:01:07,180 because obviously radars a little bit 1389 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:10,540 harder to fabricate or hoax yeah but 1390 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:12,850 you'll hear the debunking about that but 1391 01:01:17,250 --> 01:01:15,730 oh yes just the way it is so that's it 1392 01:01:19,350 --> 01:01:17,260 for part one of the show hanging we'll 1393 01:01:21,660 --> 01:01:19,360 be right back with David Marlar right 1394 01:01:24,330 --> 01:01:21,670 after the music break to talk about the 1395 01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:24,340 incident that happened in the year 2000 1396 01:01:49,810 --> 01:01:26,650 and a lot more thank you for supporting 1397 01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:52,640 okay we're back with David Marlar and 1398 01:01:57,140 --> 01:01:54,930 we're talking about triangle UFOs and 1399 01:01:59,660 --> 01:01:57,150 this hour we're going to touch on a 1400 01:02:01,640 --> 01:01:59,670 great case one of the I think one of the 1401 01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:01,650 most solid cases out there involving 1402 01:02:08,410 --> 01:02:04,770 police officers back in the year 2000 1403 01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:08,420 but David welcome back and before we 1404 01:02:14,350 --> 01:02:10,770 move on to that I want to ask a couple 1405 01:02:19,580 --> 01:02:14,360 of questions up on the message board and 1406 01:02:23,540 --> 01:02:19,590 one of them is you keep mentioning Omar 1407 01:02:27,230 --> 01:02:23,550 Omar Fowler is Omar related to Raymond 1408 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:27,240 Fowler or is he just also another UFO 1409 01:02:30,860 --> 01:02:29,610 researcher that's actually a really good 1410 01:02:32,690 --> 01:02:30,870 question 1411 01:02:36,140 --> 01:02:32,700 to my knowledge there's no relationship 1412 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:36,150 whatsoever but for anyone that is not 1413 01:02:40,130 --> 01:02:38,250 familiar with mr. Omar Fowler I'd 1414 01:02:42,980 --> 01:02:40,140 recommend you know doing a google search 1415 01:02:45,020 --> 01:02:42,990 and looking him up he's been a veteran 1416 01:02:46,790 --> 01:02:45,030 researcher for many many decades and 1417 01:02:50,350 --> 01:02:46,800 then I'll be honest with you Martin I 1418 01:02:52,940 --> 01:02:50,360 really truly appreciate in value 1419 01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:52,950 researchers like mr. Fowler that for 1420 01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:55,290 decades have dedicated their lives to 1421 01:02:59,780 --> 01:02:57,410 investigating this mystery as 1422 01:03:02,510 --> 01:02:59,790 frustrating as it can be and I'm sure 1423 01:03:04,700 --> 01:03:02,520 you can agree with me on that it can be 1424 01:03:06,350 --> 01:03:04,710 damn frustrating but you know there are 1425 01:03:08,780 --> 01:03:06,360 those researchers out there and you 1426 01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:08,790 mentioned of course race Stanford who I 1427 01:03:13,340 --> 01:03:10,370 was just speaking with this weekend 1428 01:03:16,580 --> 01:03:13,350 raised another one you know I I really 1429 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:16,590 truly appreciate the years the decades 1430 01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:18,690 of dedication these men have dedicated 1431 01:03:23,630 --> 01:03:21,990 to investigating the subject yeah I'm 1432 01:03:25,130 --> 01:03:23,640 actually going down to visit him this 1433 01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:25,140 coming weekend I'm pretty excited about 1434 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:25,730 it 1435 01:03:29,780 --> 01:03:28,170 absolutely he's a he's a fountain of 1436 01:03:32,750 --> 01:03:29,790 knowledge yes and he's probably 1437 01:03:35,180 --> 01:03:32,760 listening right now and by the way 1438 01:03:39,950 --> 01:03:35,190 anyone can call into the show including 1439 01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:39,960 you Ray if you'd like that 603 967 403 1440 01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:42,690 oh and a question up on the message 1441 01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:44,610 board does this mean that you have not 1442 01:03:51,150 --> 01:03:47,280 personally interviewed a witness with 1443 01:03:54,660 --> 01:03:51,160 pictures only or pictures 1444 01:03:55,950 --> 01:03:54,670 no none of the witnesses that well I do 1445 01:03:58,320 --> 01:03:55,960 take that back we're going to talk about 1446 01:04:00,120 --> 01:03:58,330 the January 5th 2000 case and there was 1447 01:04:02,340 --> 01:04:00,130 a photo taken by one of the police 1448 01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:02,350 officers but unfortunately was a 1449 01:04:06,420 --> 01:04:04,720 Polaroid which you know we don't even 1450 01:04:09,330 --> 01:04:06,430 have those anymore but it was a Polaroid 1451 01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:09,340 Instamatic camera which you know for any 1452 01:04:13,109 --> 01:04:10,690 photographers out there you know that 1453 01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:13,119 you know initially even if it's a 1454 01:04:18,300 --> 01:04:16,240 daylight sighting or a daylight photo 1455 01:04:20,849 --> 01:04:18,310 the the Polaroids were not exactly 1456 01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:20,859 high-resolution cameras coupled with the 1457 01:04:26,099 --> 01:04:22,510 fact that it was sitting in the trunk of 1458 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:26,109 his squad car and was below the normal 1459 01:04:31,770 --> 01:04:27,970 operating temperatures you know design 1460 01:04:34,410 --> 01:04:31,780 for that camera so very poor photo came 1461 01:04:36,990 --> 01:04:34,420 out as a result and really from an 1462 01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:37,000 evidentiary standpoint it really yielded 1463 01:04:41,849 --> 01:04:40,000 nothing but I do commend the officer 1464 01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:41,859 officer Craig Stevens for at least 1465 01:04:45,420 --> 01:04:43,210 having the forethought to do that 1466 01:04:48,180 --> 01:04:45,430 because in so many cases we have 1467 01:04:50,790 --> 01:04:48,190 witnesses that are stunned or as they 1468 01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:50,800 like to say in the UK gobsmacked by what 1469 01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:52,930 they're looking at that sometimes they 1470 01:04:55,740 --> 01:04:54,130 have a camera in their hand and they 1471 01:04:57,450 --> 01:04:55,750 don't even think about taking a picture 1472 01:04:59,430 --> 01:04:57,460 because they're just literally in awe of 1473 01:05:01,890 --> 01:04:59,440 what they're observing I can totally 1474 01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:01,900 relate to that because I had a sighting 1475 01:05:06,690 --> 01:05:04,480 and and it was like the furthest thing 1476 01:05:10,020 --> 01:05:06,700 from my mind at the time 1477 01:05:13,109 --> 01:05:10,030 now before we move on to that particular 1478 01:05:15,090 --> 01:05:13,119 case what about noise you know you 1479 01:05:18,060 --> 01:05:15,100 always hear about them being completely 1480 01:05:19,890 --> 01:05:18,070 silent but some of them actually have 1481 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:19,900 like there's a humming noise on some of 1482 01:05:25,050 --> 01:05:22,810 them can you talk about that correct 1483 01:05:27,420 --> 01:05:25,060 yeah matter of fact just real quick as I 1484 01:05:29,250 --> 01:05:27,430 know we'll go into it in more detail but 1485 01:05:31,859 --> 01:05:29,260 Craig Stevens officer Craig Stevens from 1486 01:05:34,530 --> 01:05:31,869 Illinois from the January 5th 2000 case 1487 01:05:36,750 --> 01:05:34,540 he was the believe the only witness in 1488 01:05:39,359 --> 01:05:36,760 that in that series of sightings that 1489 01:05:41,220 --> 01:05:39,369 described hearing some type of noise and 1490 01:05:43,500 --> 01:05:41,230 he described it as like a low decibel 1491 01:05:45,359 --> 01:05:43,510 buzzing or humming sound as it is 1492 01:05:49,290 --> 01:05:45,369 similar to he likened it to like an 1493 01:05:52,290 --> 01:05:49,300 electrical transformer and we do have 1494 01:05:55,980 --> 01:05:52,300 other accounts describing droning 1495 01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:55,990 humming some type of sound emanating 1496 01:06:02,670 --> 01:06:00,640 from these objects now again do all of 1497 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:02,680 the objects make this sound and only 1498 01:06:06,780 --> 01:06:04,090 certain people are you 1499 01:06:11,430 --> 01:06:06,790 a close enough or B have the auditory 1500 01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:11,440 acuity to hear it I don't know but to 1501 01:06:17,490 --> 01:06:14,130 your point Martin the vast majority are 1502 01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:17,500 reported as being completely silent you 1503 01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:19,690 mentioned earlier that they seem to defy 1504 01:06:27,450 --> 01:06:25,090 like for instance you hear about this 1505 01:06:29,490 --> 01:06:27,460 all the time they may speed up well over 1506 01:06:34,770 --> 01:06:29,500 the speed of sound and they seem to defy 1507 01:06:37,410 --> 01:06:34,780 all of those those basic physics yes 1508 01:06:40,020 --> 01:06:37,420 like I said like I mentioned earlier in 1509 01:06:41,820 --> 01:06:40,030 the first hour I spoke with people at 1510 01:06:45,210 --> 01:06:41,830 Boeing McDonnell Douglas British 1511 01:06:47,870 --> 01:06:45,220 Aerospace and you know these things 1512 01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:47,880 whatever they are are exhibiting 1513 01:06:52,590 --> 01:06:50,170 characteristics indicative of some 1514 01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:52,600 radical type of propulsion technology 1515 01:06:57,300 --> 01:06:55,570 beyond combustion jet engines I think I 1516 01:06:59,550 --> 01:06:57,310 think we can at least safely establish 1517 01:07:01,980 --> 01:06:59,560 that based on all of the eyewitness 1518 01:07:03,930 --> 01:07:01,990 accounts it was interesting though I 1519 01:07:04,380 --> 01:07:03,940 can't mention the the gentleman's name 1520 01:07:06,330 --> 01:07:04,390 Amy 1521 01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:06,340 I've never gotten permission to use his 1522 01:07:12,510 --> 01:07:08,770 name publicly with regard to this but he 1523 01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:12,520 was instrumental he he works for British 1524 01:07:18,090 --> 01:07:14,890 Aerospace he was instrumental in putting 1525 01:07:20,610 --> 01:07:18,100 me in touch with another scientist in 1526 01:07:23,550 --> 01:07:20,620 the aeronautics aviation field that I 1527 01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:23,560 did interview in the book and I told him 1528 01:07:27,630 --> 01:07:25,330 I really thank you for your cooperation 1529 01:07:29,460 --> 01:07:27,640 in putting me in touch with with this 1530 01:07:31,590 --> 01:07:29,470 professor and he's agreed to be 1531 01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:31,600 interviewed for my book I said when the 1532 01:07:34,830 --> 01:07:33,490 books published you know I would like to 1533 01:07:37,470 --> 01:07:34,840 thank you by sending you an autographed 1534 01:07:40,110 --> 01:07:37,480 copy of my book I found his reply rather 1535 01:07:43,350 --> 01:07:40,120 interesting he said David you are too 1536 01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:43,360 kind he goes he goes on to say an email 1537 01:07:48,780 --> 01:07:46,330 after all we're all striving for the 1538 01:07:52,830 --> 01:07:48,790 same thing to understand how these UFOs 1539 01:07:56,130 --> 01:07:52,840 fly Wow and this was a leading research 1540 01:07:57,630 --> 01:07:56,140 scientist in British Aerospace that told 1541 01:07:59,730 --> 01:07:57,640 me that and I found that to be a very 1542 01:08:01,440 --> 01:07:59,740 telling statement isn't that something 1543 01:08:03,110 --> 01:08:01,450 well you can say his name cuz no one's 1544 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:03,120 listening 1545 01:08:09,630 --> 01:08:06,970 don't say that Martin no that wouldn't 1546 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:09,640 be good for business now why are some of 1547 01:08:17,610 --> 01:08:14,650 the ufos called doritos ah yes a wave of 1548 01:08:20,730 --> 01:08:17,620 sightings over the UK several years ago 1549 01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:20,740 Oh were being called flying Doritos 1550 01:08:23,790 --> 01:08:22,210 because of course their their 1551 01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:23,800 characteristic triangular shaped like 1552 01:08:30,330 --> 01:08:28,000 the snack ship and I have a number of 1553 01:08:32,970 --> 01:08:30,340 original British news clippings when I 1554 01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:32,980 was running the UFO news clipping 1555 01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:36,730 service after Luke Farish had decided he 1556 01:08:40,530 --> 01:08:38,110 didn't want to do that anymore after 1557 01:08:42,150 --> 01:08:40,540 doing it for decades and I was getting a 1558 01:08:45,420 --> 01:08:42,160 lot of newspaper clippings at the time 1559 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:45,430 and they were calling it the flying 1560 01:08:50,250 --> 01:08:47,890 Dorito or the Dudley Dorito because it 1561 01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:50,260 was being seen near an area a little 1562 01:08:55,380 --> 01:08:54,250 village called Dudley and yeah and it's 1563 01:08:57,900 --> 01:08:55,390 interesting you bring that up too 1564 01:08:59,820 --> 01:08:57,910 because in doing the historical research 1565 01:09:01,800 --> 01:08:59,830 it for anybody that's out there that's 1566 01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:01,810 done research historical research of any 1567 01:09:07,530 --> 01:09:04,690 kind let alone UFO research there's a 1568 01:09:09,630 --> 01:09:07,540 lot of work that goes into it and when 1569 01:09:12,090 --> 01:09:09,640 you're doing searches internet searches 1570 01:09:15,630 --> 01:09:12,100 or you're searching digital archival 1571 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:15,640 databases triangle might be a search 1572 01:09:20,190 --> 01:09:18,130 term one of the terms that they used in 1573 01:09:22,230 --> 01:09:20,200 the 50s to describe these triangular 1574 01:09:25,260 --> 01:09:22,240 UFOs in the UK they call them flying 1575 01:09:30,110 --> 01:09:25,270 deltas so Delta is another search term 1576 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:30,120 you need to use flying wedge flying wing 1577 01:09:33,930 --> 01:09:32,170 Arrowhead these are all different 1578 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:33,940 descriptives that have been used by 1579 01:09:38,340 --> 01:09:35,890 witnesses over the years but they're 1580 01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:38,350 essentially describing the same thing so 1581 01:09:41,910 --> 01:09:40,210 you have to be very creative and try to 1582 01:09:43,830 --> 01:09:41,920 come up with come up with all the 1583 01:09:45,870 --> 01:09:43,840 possibilities as far as how would people 1584 01:09:49,410 --> 01:09:45,880 describe these objects sounds like a 1585 01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:49,420 microfiche headache to me yes yes well 1586 01:09:53,070 --> 01:09:51,610 as I like to joke with my friends and my 1587 01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:53,080 co-workers I didn't have to wear reading 1588 01:09:57,780 --> 01:09:56,080 glasses after reading books all these 1589 01:09:59,900 --> 01:09:57,790 years but after writing one I certainly 1590 01:10:01,920 --> 01:09:59,910 developed a need for for reading glasses 1591 01:10:05,370 --> 01:10:01,930 I'm sure I'm sure 1592 01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:05,380 okay let's talk about January 5th 2000 1593 01:10:09,930 --> 01:10:08,770 and that was Illinois right yes at the 1594 01:10:12,570 --> 01:10:09,940 time I lived in southern Illinois 1595 01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:12,580 approximately 20 miles from where all of 1596 01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:15,760 these sightings occurred this was a very 1597 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:19,690 cold night early morning 1598 01:10:25,950 --> 01:10:22,690 you know the evening of January 4th the 1599 01:10:27,480 --> 01:10:25,960 early morning of January 5th 2000 and it 1600 01:10:29,430 --> 01:10:27,490 was a series of incidents and it's 1601 01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:29,440 really fascinating as a researcher 1602 01:10:33,420 --> 01:10:30,850 whether it's try 1603 01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:33,430 UFOs or otherwise when you can establish 1604 01:10:40,410 --> 01:10:37,920 a flight pattern of a UFO over a fairly 1605 01:10:43,110 --> 01:10:40,420 confined geographic area and that's 1606 01:10:45,270 --> 01:10:43,120 exactly what we were able to do the 1607 01:10:47,700 --> 01:10:45,280 series of incidents began with an 1608 01:10:49,740 --> 01:10:47,710 over-the-road truck driver that had just 1609 01:10:52,410 --> 01:10:49,750 arrived in Highland Illinois which is 1610 01:10:53,820 --> 01:10:52,420 approximately 3035 miles east of st. 1611 01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:53,830 Louis Missouri just across the 1612 01:10:57,900 --> 01:10:56,290 Mississippi into Illinois and he was 1613 01:11:01,170 --> 01:10:57,910 coming home and again the temperatures 1614 01:11:04,290 --> 01:11:01,180 were very cold during the summertime he 1615 01:11:07,410 --> 01:11:04,300 actually runs a little family fun time 1616 01:11:09,870 --> 01:11:07,420 miniature golf course and he arrived 1617 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:09,880 just before four o'clock in the morning 1618 01:11:15,090 --> 01:11:13,210 on January 5th and decided that before 1619 01:11:17,250 --> 01:11:15,100 he went home he thought he'd better go 1620 01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:17,260 by his business establishment to see if 1621 01:11:21,860 --> 01:11:19,210 the pipes had frozen or burst because it 1622 01:11:25,650 --> 01:11:21,870 was a very cold bitter bitter cold night 1623 01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:25,660 he pulls his truck in he exits his 1624 01:11:31,380 --> 01:11:28,570 vehicle and as he's walking towards the 1625 01:11:33,810 --> 01:11:31,390 the door to his establishment a light 1626 01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:33,820 off in the distance to the Northeast 1627 01:11:37,710 --> 01:11:36,610 catches his attention and he looked at 1628 01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:37,720 it didn't really give it too much 1629 01:11:41,810 --> 01:11:39,850 thought but just his initial thought was 1630 01:11:44,610 --> 01:11:41,820 wow that's that's really a bright star 1631 01:11:47,190 --> 01:11:44,620 enters the building checks very quickly 1632 01:11:48,990 --> 01:11:47,200 the pipes everything was sound and no 1633 01:11:51,710 --> 01:11:49,000 pipes had broken there was no water 1634 01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:51,720 flooding flooding the facility and 1635 01:11:57,570 --> 01:11:55,330 immediately turns around exits the the 1636 01:12:01,260 --> 01:11:57,580 building locks it up and is walking back 1637 01:12:03,450 --> 01:12:01,270 to his pickup truck looks back over just 1638 01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:03,460 to see if the light was still there the 1639 01:12:08,100 --> 01:12:04,960 light was still there but it was 1640 01:12:10,670 --> 01:12:08,110 apparently moving and moving closer to 1641 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:10,680 him and in gaining an intensity in size 1642 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:13,570 he stood there for for what was probably 1643 01:12:19,650 --> 01:12:16,330 just a few minutes and watched this a 1644 01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:19,660 light move to the south of his position 1645 01:12:24,150 --> 01:12:22,480 just over a row of trees that lines the 1646 01:12:27,420 --> 01:12:24,160 back of his property the miniature golf 1647 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:27,430 course right there and as the light 1648 01:12:31,290 --> 01:12:29,530 moved to the south of his position he 1649 01:12:34,110 --> 01:12:31,300 realized that the light that he saw 1650 01:12:39,210 --> 01:12:34,120 initially was in fact affixed to some 1651 01:12:42,510 --> 01:12:39,220 type of solid dark object that had his 1652 01:12:43,700 --> 01:12:42,520 term windows on the side large picture 1653 01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:43,710 windows we 1654 01:12:49,220 --> 01:12:47,550 white emanating from the inside out he 1655 01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:49,230 watched it moves silently over these 1656 01:12:54,530 --> 01:12:51,810 trees and then it moved to the from the 1657 01:12:57,170 --> 01:12:54,540 Northeast to the southwest as it 1658 01:12:59,120 --> 01:12:57,180 departed he could see windows in the 1659 01:13:03,380 --> 01:12:59,130 back with what he described as dark 1660 01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:03,390 vertical bars so he observes this move 1661 01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:05,730 off disappears behind the trees 1662 01:13:11,390 --> 01:13:09,330 and I always like to describe him as the 1663 01:13:13,910 --> 01:13:11,400 hero of this story because if it wasn't 1664 01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:13,920 for him having the forethought and I 1665 01:13:18,290 --> 01:13:16,170 would also add the courage to do what he 1666 01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:18,300 did next this whole sequence would not 1667 01:13:20,630 --> 01:13:19,860 have played out the way we now know it 1668 01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:20,640 took that played out 1669 01:13:25,190 --> 01:13:23,610 he decided that whatever this is I'm 1670 01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:25,200 gonna go to the police station and 1671 01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:28,560 notify them so he went in told him what 1672 01:13:33,290 --> 01:13:30,600 he saw he described it as a flying house 1673 01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:33,300 moving over the the village of Highland 1674 01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:36,690 Illinois and stated that look you don't 1675 01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:38,250 have to believe me but whatever this 1676 01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:40,560 thing is it's moving to the southwest in 1677 01:13:45,650 --> 01:13:42,210 the direction in the vicinity of the 1678 01:13:47,690 --> 01:13:45,660 neighboring town of Lebanon Illinois so 1679 01:13:49,250 --> 01:13:47,700 there's laughter and chuckling because 1680 01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:49,260 you know we were able through the 1681 01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:50,940 efforts of Darrell Barker my friend and 1682 01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:52,530 colleague that also investigated this 1683 01:13:57,830 --> 01:13:55,050 case he was able to secure copies of the 1684 01:14:00,200 --> 01:13:57,840 st. Clair County dispatch recordings of 1685 01:14:01,729 --> 01:14:00,210 the police officers so which is a vital 1686 01:14:03,229 --> 01:14:01,739 record when you think about it Martin 1687 01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:03,239 that we have the recordings of the 1688 01:14:07,070 --> 01:14:04,890 officers in communication with each 1689 01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:07,080 other while the events are playing out 1690 01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,000 which we obviously don't always have 1691 01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:11,280 access to something like that 1692 01:14:19,670 --> 01:14:15,120 the officer officer ed Barton in Lebanon 1693 01:14:21,740 --> 01:14:19,680 Illinois now deceased told me that you 1694 01:14:23,150 --> 01:14:21,750 know he laughed at first and and said 1695 01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:23,160 you know well if I happen to find it 1696 01:14:26,780 --> 01:14:24,570 what am I supposed to do with it he was 1697 01:14:28,250 --> 01:14:26,790 telling the dispatchers this but he said 1698 01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:28,260 well that's fine I'll head out and see 1699 01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:29,610 if I see anything on the east end of 1700 01:14:36,860 --> 01:14:34,170 town he observed what was at first two 1701 01:14:39,290 --> 01:14:36,870 bright lights then ooh one bright light 1702 01:14:41,900 --> 01:14:39,300 that then as it approached closer was 1703 01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:41,910 two bright lights that were so intense 1704 01:14:46,370 --> 01:14:43,980 he said there were these rays that were 1705 01:14:48,410 --> 01:14:46,380 emanating off of them and he likened it 1706 01:14:51,620 --> 01:14:48,420 to the Japanese Rising Sun battle flag 1707 01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:51,630 very distinct rays of light emanating 1708 01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:55,530 from these he then hopped on the highway 1709 01:14:59,300 --> 01:14:56,610 near near 1710 01:15:02,030 --> 01:14:59,310 his vicinity there moved into Lebanon 1711 01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:02,040 and then moved to the east end of town 1712 01:15:06,109 --> 01:15:04,290 trying to intercept essentially where 1713 01:15:07,010 --> 01:15:06,119 this object was moving you know to the 1714 01:15:09,950 --> 01:15:07,020 east of town 1715 01:15:13,419 --> 01:15:09,960 he pulled a squad car over on old route 1716 01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:13,429 50 just outside just east of Lebanon and 1717 01:15:19,899 --> 01:15:17,010 turned his engine off he then saw this 1718 01:15:23,570 --> 01:15:19,909 what now was apparently a triangular 1719 01:15:26,330 --> 01:15:23,580 elongated triangular UFO move virtually 1720 01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:26,340 over his squad car completely silent and 1721 01:15:31,370 --> 01:15:28,560 I've been on location I was on location 1722 01:15:32,540 --> 01:15:31,380 with Ed Barton and and you this is an 1723 01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:32,550 area where you could literally hear a 1724 01:15:40,370 --> 01:15:35,580 pin drop it's rural there's no cars out 1725 01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:40,380 there very minimal traffic and he 1726 01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:43,050 observed this object as it moved towards 1727 01:15:48,010 --> 01:15:46,050 him it then made a flat pivot turn which 1728 01:15:50,030 --> 01:15:48,020 is indicative of these objects and 1729 01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:50,040 without making a sound 1730 01:15:55,370 --> 01:15:52,080 suddenly accelerated from a dead stop 1731 01:15:58,120 --> 01:15:55,380 and then streaked to the southwest 1732 01:16:01,490 --> 01:15:58,130 several miles until he lost sight of it 1733 01:16:03,859 --> 01:16:01,500 and at this point he stated if the 1734 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:03,869 Shiloh police officer another village 1735 01:16:09,229 --> 01:16:06,570 near Lebanon also near Scott Air Force 1736 01:16:12,350 --> 01:16:09,239 Base he said the Shiloh officer looks up 1737 01:16:14,359 --> 01:16:12,360 he can probably see it by now now prior 1738 01:16:18,290 --> 01:16:14,369 to this rapid acceleration officer 1739 01:16:20,330 --> 01:16:18,300 Barton States to the dispatcher will you 1740 01:16:22,250 --> 01:16:20,340 contact Scott Air Force Base and see if 1741 01:16:24,859 --> 01:16:22,260 they have anything flying in this area 1742 01:16:26,570 --> 01:16:24,869 and the dispatcher contacted Scott Air 1743 01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:26,580 Force Base they denied having any 1744 01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:29,850 military aircraft in the vicinity and 1745 01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:32,400 then the object was being seen by the 1746 01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:34,290 Shiloh police officer which is 1747 01:16:38,419 --> 01:16:36,449 immediately to the west right right 1748 01:16:41,390 --> 01:16:38,429 outside the West Gate of Scott Air Force 1749 01:16:44,570 --> 01:16:41,400 Base and he observed this triangular 1750 01:16:47,419 --> 01:16:44,580 object at first moving slowly then 1751 01:16:51,410 --> 01:16:47,429 accelerating rapidly and stopping and in 1752 01:16:54,350 --> 01:16:51,420 accelerating away again and this object 1753 01:16:56,959 --> 01:16:54,360 then from what we were able to ascertain 1754 01:17:01,399 --> 01:16:56,969 moved and continued in a southwesterly 1755 01:17:03,350 --> 01:17:01,409 direction now while these two previous 1756 01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:03,360 officers were observing this and 1757 01:17:07,790 --> 01:17:05,520 discussing this on the police band as 1758 01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:07,800 you can appreciate any other officers in 1759 01:17:10,310 --> 01:17:09,330 the area that are on the same frequency 1760 01:17:13,970 --> 01:17:10,320 or hearing this 1761 01:17:15,770 --> 01:17:13,980 well officer Craig Stevens in mill still 1762 01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:15,780 annoy is hearing all this chatter and 1763 01:17:18,440 --> 01:17:17,040 thinking to himself you know what did 1764 01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:18,450 these guys seeing they must be saying 1765 01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:20,970 seeing something military so he's kind 1766 01:17:24,980 --> 01:17:23,370 of chuckling and of course again this is 1767 01:17:27,260 --> 01:17:24,990 after a four o'clock in the morning so 1768 01:17:30,260 --> 01:17:27,270 not much going on in mill still annoy at 1769 01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:30,270 4:00 in the morning and he decides that 1770 01:17:34,100 --> 01:17:31,770 I'll drive to the east end of town 1771 01:17:36,650 --> 01:17:34,110 whatever this object is I'll see it 1772 01:17:38,660 --> 01:17:36,660 heading my direction so he parked for 1773 01:17:40,190 --> 01:17:38,670 just a few minutes and noticed he didn't 1774 01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:40,200 see anything so then he moved to the 1775 01:17:45,050 --> 01:17:42,210 north end of town an area known as 1776 01:17:47,180 --> 01:17:45,060 Liederkranz park which really affords a 1777 01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:47,190 beautiful panoramic view looking to the 1778 01:17:51,530 --> 01:17:49,770 north and the northwest in fact during 1779 01:17:52,940 --> 01:17:51,540 this time of year way off in the 1780 01:17:55,460 --> 01:17:52,950 distance you can see some of the 1781 01:17:58,520 --> 01:17:55,470 downtown st. Louis city lights across 1782 01:18:00,080 --> 01:17:58,530 the Mississippi River so he's sitting 1783 01:18:02,630 --> 01:18:00,090 there and within a matter of minutes he 1784 01:18:05,570 --> 01:18:02,640 suddenly notices this large triangular 1785 01:18:07,970 --> 01:18:05,580 object move over his squad car and move 1786 01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:07,980 over this field this wide open field 1787 01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:12,560 near Liederkranz Park he hops out and 1788 01:18:17,900 --> 01:18:14,970 after after contacting the police 1789 01:18:20,060 --> 01:18:17,910 dispatch he he tells them and he's got 1790 01:18:21,500 --> 01:18:20,070 the object inside also and the 1791 01:18:24,020 --> 01:18:21,510 dispatcher kind of laughs and says are 1792 01:18:25,670 --> 01:18:24,030 you serious and he says it's huge and 1793 01:18:26,780 --> 01:18:25,680 then he gets out of his squad car and 1794 01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:26,790 tries to take a picture with the 1795 01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:28,530 Polaroid which I as I mentioned earlier 1796 01:18:36,910 --> 01:18:31,890 didn't turn out very well and he then 1797 01:18:39,980 --> 01:18:36,920 asks if the duplo officer has a Polaroid 1798 01:18:41,870 --> 01:18:39,990 because again it was going from mill 1799 01:18:44,300 --> 01:18:41,880 stock now towards the neighboring 1800 01:18:46,130 --> 01:18:44,310 village of dupe oh now this would be 1801 01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:46,140 taking it basically in a trajectory 1802 01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:48,090 where it's heading towards downtown st. 1803 01:18:54,710 --> 01:18:50,400 Louis if it continues on that flight 1804 01:18:56,690 --> 01:18:54,720 path and so the duple officer hears this 1805 01:18:58,780 --> 01:18:56,700 and he starts looking he drives to the 1806 01:19:01,010 --> 01:18:58,790 end of town the east end of town and 1807 01:19:03,170 --> 01:19:01,020 doesn't see an object that sees a 1808 01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:03,180 conglomeration of lights that apparently 1809 01:19:09,740 --> 01:19:07,410 was much much higher and moving from its 1810 01:19:11,990 --> 01:19:09,750 current position to the Northeast so 1811 01:19:14,660 --> 01:19:12,000 what were we able to determine is that 1812 01:19:17,180 --> 01:19:14,670 this object whatever it was after Craig 1813 01:19:19,070 --> 01:19:17,190 Stevens observed at Mill stock the 1814 01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:19,080 object apparently increased in altitude 1815 01:19:22,510 --> 01:19:21,210 and then moved back to the northeast 1816 01:19:25,180 --> 01:19:22,520 from the direction the object 1817 01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:25,190 originated the reason I say that is in 1818 01:19:31,630 --> 01:19:28,250 the initial stages of my investigation I 1819 01:19:33,940 --> 01:19:31,640 was surprised that when officer Stevens 1820 01:19:35,950 --> 01:19:33,950 reported that it was moving towards do 1821 01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:35,960 Poe again that would have taken it on a 1822 01:19:41,710 --> 01:19:38,330 flight path right over downtown st. 1823 01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:41,720 Louis which even at around 4:30 quarter 1824 01:19:45,670 --> 01:19:43,040 to 5:00 in the morning which was this 1825 01:19:49,180 --> 01:19:45,680 time you think we would have had many 1826 01:19:51,820 --> 01:19:49,190 many witnesses reporting this and when I 1827 01:19:55,540 --> 01:19:51,830 finally interviewed the officer Matt 1828 01:19:57,070 --> 01:19:55,550 Janie in do pó he informed me well no it 1829 01:19:59,740 --> 01:19:57,080 didn't go that direction 1830 01:20:02,950 --> 01:19:59,750 what I saw was moving along the bluffs 1831 01:20:04,450 --> 01:20:02,960 along the floodplain and apparently then 1832 01:20:05,980 --> 01:20:04,460 moved off to the Northeast 1833 01:20:09,070 --> 01:20:05,990 so that explained why we had no 1834 01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:09,080 witnesses in Missouri during that series 1835 01:20:17,230 --> 01:20:12,770 of sightings now was it limited to just 1836 01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:17,240 that area or did you happen to research 1837 01:20:21,580 --> 01:20:18,770 in to see if there was any other 1838 01:20:23,950 --> 01:20:21,590 sightings you know as you said this 1839 01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:23,960 thing fled off really fast so it could 1840 01:20:28,450 --> 01:20:25,330 go about anywhere it wanted to of course 1841 01:20:30,100 --> 01:20:28,460 yes did you hear about any other 1842 01:20:33,850 --> 01:20:30,110 sightings even like a day after or 1843 01:20:35,890 --> 01:20:33,860 anything like that not a day after in 1844 01:20:38,530 --> 01:20:35,900 the subsequent weeks and months I did 1845 01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:38,540 hear of other accounts and unfortunately 1846 01:20:42,070 --> 01:20:40,490 some of these people initially contacted 1847 01:20:44,020 --> 01:20:42,080 me but then when I try to schedule times 1848 01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:44,030 to meet with them and this often happens 1849 01:20:48,580 --> 01:20:46,850 in UFO investigations they either get 1850 01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:48,590 cold feet or they decide that they don't 1851 01:20:53,830 --> 01:20:50,810 want to meet with me you know to do an 1852 01:20:55,690 --> 01:20:53,840 actual formal interview so we do have 1853 01:20:59,320 --> 01:20:55,700 some other accounts now one that I will 1854 01:21:01,390 --> 01:20:59,330 mention I contacted all of the 1855 01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:01,400 neighboring police departments besides 1856 01:21:05,850 --> 01:21:02,930 the ones I mentioned thinking perhaps 1857 01:21:10,180 --> 01:21:05,860 other police officers had observed this 1858 01:21:12,820 --> 01:21:10,190 there's a small village just south of 1859 01:21:16,930 --> 01:21:12,830 Scott Air Force Base to the south 1860 01:21:20,250 --> 01:21:16,940 southeast called mascoutah illinois and 1861 01:21:22,780 --> 01:21:20,260 when I contacted mascoutah illinois i 1862 01:21:24,370 --> 01:21:22,790 stated who I was I was the Illinois 1863 01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:24,380 State Director for MUFON and I'm 1864 01:21:28,420 --> 01:21:26,480 investigating this well-publicized 1865 01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:28,430 UFO sighting and I'm just simply trying 1866 01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:30,650 to ascertain if you had received any 1867 01:21:35,159 --> 01:21:32,930 calls or if in fact any of your officers 1868 01:21:38,399 --> 01:21:35,169 had observed this object 1869 01:21:41,609 --> 01:21:38,409 the dispatcher stated oh yes you need to 1870 01:21:43,229 --> 01:21:41,619 talk to officer so-and-so she called in 1871 01:21:45,719 --> 01:21:43,239 and she said she saw the object that 1872 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:45,729 night well I never got a chance to 1873 01:21:49,799 --> 01:21:47,050 interview her never got permission to 1874 01:21:53,069 --> 01:21:49,809 use her name so I can't say it but in 1875 01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:53,079 several attempts both by phone and by 1876 01:21:57,839 --> 01:21:55,449 mail I was never able to get this 1877 01:22:00,120 --> 01:21:57,849 officer to come forward and give me her 1878 01:22:01,770 --> 01:22:00,130 testimony but the dispatcher lit up like 1879 01:22:03,509 --> 01:22:01,780 a Christmas tree when I mentioned this 1880 01:22:06,899 --> 01:22:03,519 and she said oh yes you need to talk to 1881 01:22:08,969 --> 01:22:06,909 officer so-and-so so I know at least one 1882 01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:08,979 other police officer observed this but 1883 01:22:12,569 --> 01:22:11,110 was not willing to come forward and then 1884 01:22:15,989 --> 01:22:12,579 approximately a year year and a half 1885 01:22:19,830 --> 01:22:15,999 later office officer mark Lowe paano of 1886 01:22:22,649 --> 01:22:19,840 the of the both Allen Police Department 1887 01:22:25,350 --> 01:22:22,659 came forward and that's also very close 1888 01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:25,360 to Scott Air Force Base in Shiloh and he 1889 01:22:28,830 --> 01:22:27,130 came forward and was interviewed by my 1890 01:22:31,409 --> 01:22:28,840 friend and colleague Darryl Barker and 1891 01:22:34,409 --> 01:22:31,419 he described what he observed being a 1892 01:22:37,199 --> 01:22:34,419 large triangular object so we have 1893 01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:37,209 multiple police officers as well as the 1894 01:22:41,819 --> 01:22:38,800 initial civilian witness the truck 1895 01:22:44,009 --> 01:22:41,829 driver that observed this object we 1896 01:22:46,919 --> 01:22:44,019 quite literally were able to take their 1897 01:22:48,719 --> 01:22:46,929 testimony in conjunction with the police 1898 01:22:51,509 --> 01:22:48,729 dispatch recordings which were 1899 01:22:54,060 --> 01:22:51,519 time-stamped and it gave us a very 1900 01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:54,070 detailed point-by-point literally 1901 01:23:00,569 --> 01:22:57,010 connect the dots on a map flight path of 1902 01:23:04,469 --> 01:23:00,579 this UFO now of course there was no 1903 01:23:07,169 --> 01:23:04,479 radar evidence of that was reported or 1904 01:23:08,669 --> 01:23:07,179 they were saying Scott airbase was 1905 01:23:11,879 --> 01:23:08,679 saying they had nothing up in the air at 1906 01:23:15,229 --> 01:23:11,889 the time correct yes and I actually 1907 01:23:17,939 --> 01:23:15,239 explored Martin the radar aspect and 1908 01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:17,949 just to jump forward a little bit this 1909 01:23:25,259 --> 01:23:22,090 was in January of 2000 in April of 2000 1910 01:23:28,739 --> 01:23:25,269 I was asked by by the late Lou Farish a 1911 01:23:30,899 --> 01:23:28,749 good friend and researcher to come and 1912 01:23:32,850 --> 01:23:30,909 speak at the Ozark UFO conference to 1913 01:23:34,199 --> 01:23:32,860 discuss this case because it had 1914 01:23:36,449 --> 01:23:34,209 garnered so much 1915 01:23:39,029 --> 01:23:36,459 initially local and then certainly 1916 01:23:40,949 --> 01:23:39,039 national media attention and it was the 1917 01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:40,959 first public lecture to really discuss 1918 01:23:45,870 --> 01:23:43,090 the initial findings that we had on this 1919 01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:45,880 investigation as soon as I stepped away 1920 01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:48,570 from the podium a gentleman approached 1921 01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:51,090 put his hand on my shoulder presented 1922 01:23:56,180 --> 01:23:53,250 his business card as if to validate what 1923 01:23:58,610 --> 01:23:56,190 he was telling me and he stated you know 1924 01:24:00,500 --> 01:23:58,620 Dave I'm with the FAA he goes I'm here 1925 01:24:02,570 --> 01:24:00,510 unofficially because I'm just interested 1926 01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:02,580 in the subject but because I helped 1927 01:24:06,890 --> 01:24:04,650 install the radar systems at Lambert 1928 01:24:08,990 --> 01:24:06,900 International Airport and I've been with 1929 01:24:10,790 --> 01:24:09,000 the FAA for approximately thirty years 1930 01:24:12,950 --> 01:24:10,800 he goes if you need any assistance with 1931 01:24:15,710 --> 01:24:12,960 radar I'd be happy to help you well 1932 01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:15,720 obviously that piqued my interest now I 1933 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:17,370 always like to point out and I mention 1934 01:24:22,070 --> 01:24:20,010 this in the book he offered to take me 1935 01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:22,080 on a tour of the radar facility at 1936 01:24:27,020 --> 01:24:24,090 Lambert International Airport now again 1937 01:24:29,150 --> 01:24:27,030 this is this is mm this this was around 1938 01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:29,160 April of 2000 so this was before 9/11 1939 01:24:33,070 --> 01:24:32,400 before security was you know what it is 1940 01:24:36,620 --> 01:24:33,080 today 1941 01:24:39,010 --> 01:24:36,630 and so I took him up on his invitation 1942 01:24:42,440 --> 01:24:39,020 about a month later when he was in town 1943 01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:42,450 he took me to a Lambert International 1944 01:24:48,050 --> 01:24:45,210 Airport we went into the FAA control 1945 01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:48,060 tower met all of the individuals there 1946 01:24:52,100 --> 01:24:50,370 we actually went up to the top of the 1947 01:24:53,570 --> 01:24:52,110 control tower met with the radar 1948 01:24:56,060 --> 01:24:53,580 operators could see all the planes 1949 01:24:57,800 --> 01:24:56,070 coming into Lambert and it was really an 1950 01:25:00,230 --> 01:24:57,810 interesting experience Martin because 1951 01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:00,240 I've dealt with enough law enforcement 1952 01:25:04,430 --> 01:25:02,130 I've dealt with enough scientists and so 1953 01:25:06,170 --> 01:25:04,440 forth where as soon as I mentioned UFOs 1954 01:25:08,510 --> 01:25:06,180 I can kind of see them repressing that 1955 01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:08,520 little smirk because they don't 1956 01:25:12,590 --> 01:25:09,810 necessarily think there's any legitimacy 1957 01:25:14,420 --> 01:25:12,600 I'm here to tell you when I went up 1958 01:25:16,430 --> 01:25:14,430 there with with my friend Richard Taylor 1959 01:25:17,900 --> 01:25:16,440 I can say his name he's become a very 1960 01:25:20,900 --> 01:25:17,910 good friend of mine we still keep in 1961 01:25:22,730 --> 01:25:20,910 touch to this day when Richard brought 1962 01:25:24,410 --> 01:25:22,740 me up there they won they respected 1963 01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:24,420 Richard they knew Richard for many years 1964 01:25:30,230 --> 01:25:27,900 but when he stated that Dave is the lead 1965 01:25:31,730 --> 01:25:30,240 investigator on this this UFO sighting 1966 01:25:34,490 --> 01:25:31,740 that's been making the news with these 1967 01:25:37,340 --> 01:25:34,500 police officers every single one of them 1968 01:25:39,980 --> 01:25:37,350 Martin were dead serious and were asking 1969 01:25:41,300 --> 01:25:39,990 me about all the details they wanted to 1970 01:25:42,770 --> 01:25:41,310 know what was going on they said well 1971 01:25:44,180 --> 01:25:42,780 what have you found out so far with your 1972 01:25:46,310 --> 01:25:44,190 investigation you know where's the 1973 01:25:48,140 --> 01:25:46,320 investigation at have you found any 1974 01:25:50,300 --> 01:25:48,150 other witnesses they were very 1975 01:25:53,060 --> 01:25:50,310 interested and I do commend st. Louis 1976 01:25:55,460 --> 01:25:53,070 media for that because all of the media 1977 01:25:57,440 --> 01:25:55,470 attention up to that point locally took 1978 01:25:59,090 --> 01:25:57,450 these officers very seriously there was 1979 01:26:01,680 --> 01:25:59,100 not the typical UFO tongue-in-cheek 1980 01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:01,690 media coverage that were used to 1981 01:26:06,530 --> 01:26:04,090 so I found that to be very refreshing 1982 01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:06,540 because I'm sure you can appreciate and 1983 01:26:14,700 --> 01:26:12,370 so I knew at the time that back in 2000 1984 01:26:16,140 --> 01:26:14,710 in order to gain radar data you had to 1985 01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:16,150 file a Freedom of Information Act 1986 01:26:21,630 --> 01:26:19,570 request usually to the local radar 1987 01:26:25,700 --> 01:26:21,640 facility but also to their regional 1988 01:26:28,470 --> 01:26:25,710 facility to obtain the data and 1989 01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:28,480 unfortunately we we missed the 14-day 1990 01:26:34,290 --> 01:26:32,170 window to do that but Richard was 1991 01:26:38,100 --> 01:26:34,300 conveying this to one of the gentlemen 1992 01:26:40,740 --> 01:26:38,110 there and the person looked at him and 1993 01:26:42,390 --> 01:26:40,750 said well he goes we've got that data he 1994 01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:42,400 goes what do you mean he goes yeah we've 1995 01:26:45,300 --> 01:26:43,810 got that data and he mentioned one of 1996 01:26:48,959 --> 01:26:45,310 the other gentlemen that's there at the 1997 01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:48,969 FAA office he said so-and-so received a 1998 01:26:52,590 --> 01:26:50,770 call from an outside agency and they 1999 01:26:55,650 --> 01:26:52,600 were told to quote/unquote pulled the 2000 01:26:57,900 --> 01:26:55,660 data and to back it up to save it and at 2001 01:27:00,090 --> 01:26:57,910 that time they had put it on a for those 2002 01:27:05,130 --> 01:27:00,100 computer geeks they remember the old zip 2003 01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:05,140 drives zip disks and my friend Richard 2004 01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:07,090 was blown away up to this point we 2005 01:27:13,110 --> 01:27:09,730 thought that that radar data was gone so 2006 01:27:16,290 --> 01:27:13,120 as a result I was able to get the radar 2007 01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:16,300 data able to obtain software to run it 2008 01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:18,610 on my computer and with Richard's 2009 01:27:21,930 --> 01:27:20,170 assistance of course was able to 2010 01:27:24,570 --> 01:27:21,940 interpret the data that we were looking 2011 01:27:27,300 --> 01:27:24,580 at we were able to plot the latitude 2012 01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:27,310 longitude coordinates of the witnesses 2013 01:27:32,610 --> 01:27:30,250 we were able to take the timestamps from 2014 01:27:34,830 --> 01:27:32,620 the st. Clair County dispatch tape to 2015 01:27:36,900 --> 01:27:34,840 let us know the time of their sighting 2016 01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:36,910 the location of the sighting and then 2017 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:38,890 correlate that with the radar data and 2018 01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:41,650 we were not able we ran a multitude of 2019 01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:43,210 times we were not able to find any 2020 01:27:48,150 --> 01:27:45,250 primary targets or for that matter 2021 01:27:51,300 --> 01:27:48,160 commercial or military aircraft that 2022 01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:51,310 correlated with the times and locations 2023 01:27:55,590 --> 01:27:53,410 of the eyewitness sightings let alone 2024 01:27:59,310 --> 01:27:55,600 anything that basically followed this 2025 01:28:01,890 --> 01:27:59,320 flight path that was reported now one 2026 01:28:04,170 --> 01:28:01,900 thing that was stated by one of the FAA 2027 01:28:06,150 --> 01:28:04,180 gentlemen that were there was the fact 2028 01:28:09,150 --> 01:28:06,160 that well what was the estimated 2029 01:28:10,530 --> 01:28:09,160 altitude at this object and I stated the 2030 01:28:12,870 --> 01:28:10,540 majority of witnesses said it was 2031 01:28:15,299 --> 01:28:12,880 approximately anywhere from five hundred 2032 01:28:18,179 --> 01:28:15,309 to a thousand feet 2033 01:28:20,250 --> 01:28:18,189 they said well based on where our radar 2034 01:28:23,250 --> 01:28:20,260 array is located here in st. Louis and 2035 01:28:25,139 --> 01:28:23,260 based on the topography and low altitude 2036 01:28:28,319 --> 01:28:25,149 of this object we may not have been able 2037 01:28:29,969 --> 01:28:28,329 to pick it up on radar but your best 2038 01:28:32,699 --> 01:28:29,979 option would be to approach Scott Air 2039 01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:32,709 Force Base well I had already filed a 2040 01:28:36,209 --> 01:28:34,449 Freedom of Information Act request with 2041 01:28:39,569 --> 01:28:36,219 Scott Air Force Base I have a copy of 2042 01:28:43,619 --> 01:28:39,579 the the reply letter and they denied 2043 01:28:46,049 --> 01:28:43,629 that they had any military aircraft that 2044 01:28:49,049 --> 01:28:46,059 either was dispatched from there or that 2045 01:28:52,199 --> 01:28:49,059 they were supporting in any way and they 2046 01:28:55,949 --> 01:28:52,209 stated that their radar system was down 2047 01:28:58,079 --> 01:28:55,959 at the time of deciding which I thought 2048 01:29:01,469 --> 01:28:58,089 which I thought was a cover story and it 2049 01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:01,479 might be but my friends at the FAA did 2050 01:29:05,939 --> 01:29:03,489 tell me you know Dave for a layman that 2051 01:29:10,139 --> 01:29:05,949 does sound suspicious and we're not 2052 01:29:12,389 --> 01:29:10,149 saying it's not but they do weekly and 2053 01:29:14,909 --> 01:29:12,399 monthly maintenance on their radar array 2054 01:29:16,619 --> 01:29:14,919 and they do typically shut it down and 2055 01:29:19,229 --> 01:29:16,629 do this work between the hours of 2056 01:29:20,579 --> 01:29:19,239 midnight and 6:00 a.m. simply because 2057 01:29:23,939 --> 01:29:20,589 they usually don't have any air traffic 2058 01:29:26,159 --> 01:29:23,949 scheduled during that time so was the 2059 01:29:29,129 --> 01:29:26,169 radar operating was it not we still 2060 01:29:31,339 --> 01:29:29,139 really don't know conclusively but as I 2061 01:29:35,849 --> 01:29:31,349 as I posed to to my readers in my book 2062 01:29:38,939 --> 01:29:35,859 if the radar was down whoever whatever 2063 01:29:40,500 --> 01:29:38,949 was piloting this object isn't it 2064 01:29:43,219 --> 01:29:40,510 interesting that they took that window 2065 01:29:46,770 --> 01:29:43,229 of opportunity to do a flyby by the base 2066 01:29:50,369 --> 01:29:46,780 right you know when you talk about the 2067 01:29:53,639 --> 01:29:50,379 FAA having someone from the FAA having a 2068 01:29:56,399 --> 01:29:53,649 curiosity it kind of makes you wonder if 2069 01:29:59,639 --> 01:29:56,409 the government knows just about as much 2070 01:30:02,069 --> 01:29:59,649 as we do what these things are what what 2071 01:30:03,779 --> 01:30:02,079 are your thoughts on that well I get 2072 01:30:05,399 --> 01:30:03,789 that question posed to me a lot when I'm 2073 01:30:07,049 --> 01:30:05,409 doing my lectures and we had an 2074 01:30:08,759 --> 01:30:07,059 interesting discussion down in Florida 2075 01:30:11,099 --> 01:30:08,769 recently with the MUFON group down there 2076 01:30:12,929 --> 01:30:11,109 and I'm somewhat I guess you can say 2077 01:30:15,029 --> 01:30:12,939 somewhat of a minority in the UFO 2078 01:30:19,349 --> 01:30:15,039 community I don't necessarily buy off on 2079 01:30:23,129 --> 01:30:19,359 the shall we say the UFO belief system 2080 01:30:26,219 --> 01:30:23,139 if I can use that term my attitude is 2081 01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:26,229 that does the government know more than 2082 01:30:30,690 --> 01:30:28,960 we do about UFOs I think apps 2083 01:30:33,150 --> 01:30:30,700 solutely without a doubt and the reason 2084 01:30:35,220 --> 01:30:33,160 I say that is they have spy satellites 2085 01:30:37,890 --> 01:30:35,230 they have all of this technology for 2086 01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:37,900 tracking things I don't have more 2087 01:30:43,110 --> 01:30:39,850 information than us then that's pretty 2088 01:30:44,700 --> 01:30:43,120 scary you know certainly we have all 2089 01:30:46,470 --> 01:30:44,710 these accounts of pilots that have shot 2090 01:30:49,260 --> 01:30:46,480 gun camera footage over the years 2091 01:30:51,900 --> 01:30:49,270 my attitude is if they've shot footage 2092 01:30:53,430 --> 01:30:51,910 that footage has been sent somewhere if 2093 01:30:55,980 --> 01:30:53,440 they're tracking these objects on 2094 01:30:58,470 --> 01:30:55,990 satellite imagery that data is going 2095 01:31:01,080 --> 01:30:58,480 somewhere so do they have more 2096 01:31:03,930 --> 01:31:01,090 information than we do I think yes 2097 01:31:05,100 --> 01:31:03,940 without a doubt they probably do but I 2098 01:31:07,500 --> 01:31:05,110 always like to make a distinction 2099 01:31:09,510 --> 01:31:07,510 because again the UFO mythology the 2100 01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:09,520 beliefs that the central belief system 2101 01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:12,210 with a lot of UFO believers is that 2102 01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:13,930 Roswell happened 2103 01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:16,330 we recovered technology we back 2104 01:31:20,300 --> 01:31:18,250 engineered it and what people are seeing 2105 01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:20,310 today are the back-engineering result of 2106 01:31:25,860 --> 01:31:24,010 extraterrestrial technology ok that's 2107 01:31:28,140 --> 01:31:25,870 kind of a house of cards it's based on a 2108 01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:28,150 lot of supposition and we need to take 2109 01:31:31,830 --> 01:31:30,250 each one of those in turn first off 2110 01:31:33,630 --> 01:31:31,840 let's just say and I'm kind of an 2111 01:31:35,370 --> 01:31:33,640 agnostic with regard to Roswell it could 2112 01:31:37,350 --> 01:31:35,380 have happened but I wasn't there and 2113 01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:37,360 there's been so many variations of that 2114 01:31:41,940 --> 01:31:39,520 story told I don't know what to believe 2115 01:31:43,050 --> 01:31:41,950 or accept but I do tend to lean towards 2116 01:31:45,570 --> 01:31:43,060 the fact that something highly 2117 01:31:48,750 --> 01:31:45,580 unconventional crashed in here in New 2118 01:31:51,830 --> 01:31:48,760 Mexico in 1947 but let's just take a 2119 01:31:55,020 --> 01:31:51,840 step back for a moment let's just say 2120 01:31:56,550 --> 01:31:55,030 for the sake of argument Martin just but 2121 01:31:59,310 --> 01:31:56,560 if you can bear with me as I go through 2122 01:32:02,040 --> 01:31:59,320 this this hypothetical yeah an 2123 01:32:05,490 --> 01:32:02,050 extraterrestrial vehicle crashed in 1947 2124 01:32:08,670 --> 01:32:05,500 and let's just be conservative let's say 2125 01:32:12,570 --> 01:32:08,680 it was a thousand years ahead of us in 2126 01:32:14,700 --> 01:32:12,580 technology are we really going to have 2127 01:32:17,820 --> 01:32:14,710 any fundamental understanding of this 2128 01:32:19,770 --> 01:32:17,830 technology then or now if it's a 2129 01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:19,780 thousand years ahead of us in 2130 01:32:27,530 --> 01:32:23,530 technological advancement and if we 2131 01:32:31,230 --> 01:32:27,540 recovered said UFO and said alien bodies 2132 01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:31,240 does that wrecked ship does that dead 2133 01:32:35,820 --> 01:32:33,850 body tell you where they came from why 2134 01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:35,830 they're here you know what is their 2135 01:32:41,190 --> 01:32:37,930 belief system what is them what is their 2136 01:32:42,629 --> 01:32:41,200 moral code we may have information we 2137 01:32:46,189 --> 01:32:42,639 may have hardware 2138 01:32:49,770 --> 01:32:46,199 that doesn't equate to having answers 2139 01:32:52,020 --> 01:32:49,780 and I really think that you know this 2140 01:32:54,359 --> 01:32:52,030 kind of touches on the the $64,000 2141 01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:54,369 question why is the government covering 2142 01:32:58,679 --> 01:32:57,010 all of this up I think it's because they 2143 01:33:01,919 --> 01:32:58,689 don't know what they're dealing with I 2144 01:33:04,679 --> 01:33:01,929 think that they may have hardware they 2145 01:33:07,649 --> 01:33:04,689 may have radar tracking film footage etc 2146 01:33:11,310 --> 01:33:07,659 the list goes on and on but that doesn't 2147 01:33:14,009 --> 01:33:11,320 mean they have answers and you know when 2148 01:33:16,469 --> 01:33:14,019 you look at technology and I always like 2149 01:33:18,839 --> 01:33:16,479 to use the analogy of my cell phone I've 2150 01:33:21,929 --> 01:33:18,849 got an iPhone if I go back and see 2151 01:33:23,850 --> 01:33:21,939 Alexander Graham Bell and I shown my 2152 01:33:26,959 --> 01:33:23,860 phone he first off he's not even gonna 2153 01:33:29,639 --> 01:33:26,969 recognize that it's a phone right now 2154 01:33:31,889 --> 01:33:29,649 does he even understand the fundamental 2155 01:33:34,709 --> 01:33:31,899 concept of how that phone is powered and 2156 01:33:36,899 --> 01:33:34,719 then I have to explain to him how this 2157 01:33:39,779 --> 01:33:36,909 phone really doesn't operate unless it's 2158 01:33:41,459 --> 01:33:39,789 within a cellular network how do you 2159 01:33:45,330 --> 01:33:41,469 think Alexander Graham Bell is gonna try 2160 01:33:48,500 --> 01:33:45,340 to wrap his mind around that one now now 2161 01:33:50,580 --> 01:33:48,510 I'm only talking what 150 years maybe 2162 01:33:53,189 --> 01:33:50,590 difference and I'm talking human 2163 01:33:55,500 --> 01:33:53,199 technology to human technology again 2164 01:33:57,839 --> 01:33:55,510 going with that hypothetical scenario if 2165 01:33:59,209 --> 01:33:57,849 we're dealing with an alien culture you 2166 01:34:03,870 --> 01:33:59,219 know read into that whatever you will 2167 01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:03,880 that crashed in 1947 that's a thousand 2168 01:34:07,770 --> 01:34:06,130 years ahead of us in technology first 2169 01:34:11,250 --> 01:34:07,780 off it's a thousand years ahead of us 2170 01:34:13,500 --> 01:34:11,260 second of all it's alien right 2171 01:34:16,229 --> 01:34:13,510 what what what energy source do they use 2172 01:34:18,889 --> 01:34:16,239 what materials might they have that we 2173 01:34:23,879 --> 01:34:18,899 don't necessarily have here on earth 2174 01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:23,889 right right to all that now if you you 2175 01:34:29,069 --> 01:34:27,489 think about it you know what I just this 2176 01:34:30,750 --> 01:34:29,079 is one of the first time this has 2177 01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:30,760 happened to me in a long time I totally 2178 01:34:34,979 --> 01:34:33,489 lost my train of thought I was coming 2179 01:34:36,889 --> 01:34:34,989 right into something hopefully I didn't 2180 01:34:39,239 --> 01:34:36,899 put you to sleep with that hypothetical 2181 01:34:42,870 --> 01:34:39,249 no not at all 2182 01:34:46,199 --> 01:34:42,880 and it had to do with technology no boy 2183 01:34:48,359 --> 01:34:46,209 I'm gonna have to move on to to 2184 01:34:50,489 --> 01:34:48,369 something else and ask you to elaborate 2185 01:34:53,669 --> 01:34:50,499 on something you said you were working 2186 01:34:55,709 --> 01:34:53,679 on yes I actually haven't talked 2187 01:34:55,930 --> 01:34:55,719 publicly about this other than the group 2188 01:35:05,140 --> 01:34:55,940 in 2189 01:35:08,830 --> 01:35:05,150 secretive by any means but I just simply 2190 01:35:10,810 --> 01:35:08,840 don't want to upset the balance so to 2191 01:35:13,810 --> 01:35:10,820 speak because I'm working on this and I 2192 01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:13,820 there's a lot involved basically what 2193 01:35:19,450 --> 01:35:15,770 I'm working on Martin is putting 2194 01:35:23,830 --> 01:35:19,460 together a nonprofit organization with 2195 01:35:29,110 --> 01:35:23,840 the sole goal of preserving historical 2196 01:35:30,610 --> 01:35:29,120 UFO case files and information now one 2197 01:35:32,740 --> 01:35:30,620 of the the situations that really 2198 01:35:35,890 --> 01:35:32,750 bothers me with regard to the history of 2199 01:35:38,350 --> 01:35:35,900 UFOs and UFO investigations are the 2200 01:35:41,620 --> 01:35:38,360 missing a profiles aerial phenomenon a 2201 01:35:43,630 --> 01:35:41,630 research organization an estimated 2202 01:35:46,630 --> 01:35:43,640 eleven four-drawer file cabinets 2203 01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:46,640 consisting of approximately 15,000 UFO 2204 01:35:53,220 --> 01:35:49,489 case files from the early days from 1952 2205 01:35:57,070 --> 01:35:53,230 all the way into the mid late 80s 2206 01:35:58,540 --> 01:35:57,080 basically is disappeared there's a whole 2207 01:36:00,910 --> 01:35:58,550 story behind that for anyone interested 2208 01:36:02,530 --> 01:36:00,920 they can just type in missing a profiles 2209 01:36:06,580 --> 01:36:02,540 and they can read the history on this 2210 01:36:10,420 --> 01:36:06,590 but the point is we apparently have lost 2211 01:36:12,340 --> 01:36:10,430 all of that information and I don't want 2212 01:36:14,290 --> 01:36:12,350 to lose additional information because 2213 01:36:16,660 --> 01:36:14,300 I'm not interested in the UFO subject 2214 01:36:18,870 --> 01:36:16,670 because it's a mystery and because it 2215 01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:18,880 makes for great campfire stories I 2216 01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:21,890 really want to know what's going on I 2217 01:36:29,020 --> 01:36:26,449 want answers and we need to preserve the 2218 01:36:30,939 --> 01:36:29,030 data that we already have the motto of 2219 01:36:34,570 --> 01:36:30,949 the x-files is always the truth is out 2220 01:36:37,900 --> 01:36:34,580 there I would argue that the truth is in 2221 01:36:40,510 --> 01:36:37,910 the files we already have I'm working 2222 01:36:42,790 --> 01:36:40,520 with a large large organization that's 2223 01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:42,800 sitting on one of the largest bodies of 2224 01:36:48,580 --> 01:36:45,290 case files going back to the late 50s 2225 01:36:52,630 --> 01:36:48,590 and my goal is to get all of those files 2226 01:36:54,490 --> 01:36:52,640 Case Files digitized and upload it to 2227 01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:54,500 the internet so people will have free 2228 01:36:59,530 --> 01:36:56,650 and open access to review these files 2229 01:37:01,180 --> 01:36:59,540 we're talking thousands of UFO case 2230 01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:01,190 files that have really never seen the 2231 01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:05,330 light of day and I'm working on that as 2232 01:37:08,860 --> 01:37:07,610 well as another collection of case files 2233 01:37:10,900 --> 01:37:08,870 in a Europe 2234 01:37:12,430 --> 01:37:10,910 country I can't say anymore because I 2235 01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:12,440 haven't even talked to the individual 2236 01:37:17,590 --> 01:37:14,090 that's in possession of these files yet 2237 01:37:20,620 --> 01:37:17,600 but what I'm trying to do is preserve 2238 01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:20,630 the cases we already have that we're not 2239 01:37:26,980 --> 01:37:23,690 using currently and it's all about data 2240 01:37:28,930 --> 01:37:26,990 points in analyzing my triangular UFO 2241 01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:28,940 book in putting all that information 2242 01:37:33,610 --> 01:37:30,890 together the only way I was able to 2243 01:37:35,530 --> 01:37:33,620 extrapolate the data that I did was by 2244 01:37:38,410 --> 01:37:35,540 doing a systematic comparison and 2245 01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:38,420 analysis and organization of triangular 2246 01:37:44,440 --> 01:37:41,810 UFO reports let's take that concept put 2247 01:37:46,870 --> 01:37:44,450 on a much broader scale with UFO Case 2248 01:37:48,820 --> 01:37:46,880 Files in general and I know MUFON is 2249 01:37:50,980 --> 01:37:48,830 kind of working on a similar project in 2250 01:37:53,110 --> 01:37:50,990 this regard with their files and perhaps 2251 01:37:57,640 --> 01:37:53,120 one day we'll unify all this into one 2252 01:37:59,080 --> 01:37:57,650 centralized online database and my goal 2253 01:37:59,800 --> 01:37:59,090 is to preserve this information when you 2254 01:38:02,710 --> 01:37:59,810 think about it 2255 01:38:04,690 --> 01:38:02,720 thousands of UFO case files that are not 2256 01:38:07,330 --> 01:38:04,700 readily available to the general public 2257 01:38:08,050 --> 01:38:07,340 if we can get those digitized because 2258 01:38:11,740 --> 01:38:08,060 god forbid 2259 01:38:15,610 --> 01:38:11,750 a fire occurs or a flood those files are 2260 01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:15,620 lost forever and we need to preserve 2261 01:38:21,630 --> 01:38:17,930 that sure we had someone on from MUFON 2262 01:38:24,010 --> 01:38:21,640 oh I think about two weeks ago and he 2263 01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:24,020 was saying because he's a MUFON 2264 01:38:29,380 --> 01:38:26,210 investigator that he has full access to 2265 01:38:32,980 --> 01:38:29,390 the files but the average Joe out there 2266 01:38:35,260 --> 01:38:32,990 who was not involved that deeply in 2267 01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:35,270 MUFON could not get a lot of that 2268 01:38:40,450 --> 01:38:37,250 information of course I understand like 2269 01:38:44,050 --> 01:38:40,460 the anonymity and that you have to keep 2270 01:38:46,420 --> 01:38:44,060 you know that secure - yes have it safe 2271 01:38:49,630 --> 01:38:46,430 for people to report absolutely 2272 01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:49,640 you know redacted their names out you 2273 01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:51,410 know something like that and that would 2274 01:38:54,820 --> 01:38:53,090 be part of this project as well - 2275 01:38:56,890 --> 01:38:54,830 because we do want to we do want to 2276 01:38:58,090 --> 01:38:56,900 guarantee the anonymity of witnesses 2277 01:38:59,530 --> 01:38:58,100 that have come forward over the years 2278 01:39:02,440 --> 01:38:59,540 certainly mm-hmm 2279 01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:02,450 the thing that I had totally blanked out 2280 01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:04,970 on just a minute ago was I was going to 2281 01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:07,250 say that if the government absolutely 2282 01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:10,250 knew as much as we did about what these 2283 01:39:14,350 --> 01:39:12,170 things are in other words they didn't 2284 01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:14,360 have much more information other than 2285 01:39:21,070 --> 01:39:16,970 they found a crashed saucer or two here 2286 01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:21,080 and there they they would be scared they 2287 01:39:25,570 --> 01:39:22,610 would be scared that they 2288 01:39:27,340 --> 01:39:25,580 no and of course that being said they 2289 01:39:29,890 --> 01:39:27,350 wouldn't let us know that they didn't 2290 01:39:33,070 --> 01:39:29,900 know oh yeah absolutely I mean 2291 01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:33,080 absolutely it serves no purpose and and 2292 01:39:37,450 --> 01:39:35,810 again I I know that I'm I'm poking a lot 2293 01:39:40,780 --> 01:39:37,460 of sacred cows here tonight Martin so I 2294 01:39:42,820 --> 01:39:40,790 may get a lot of hate emails but the 2295 01:39:44,650 --> 01:39:42,830 question came up about disclosure that 2296 01:39:47,770 --> 01:39:44,660 being a very hot topic in the UFO 2297 01:39:49,420 --> 01:39:47,780 community today and had a very wonderful 2298 01:39:50,740 --> 01:39:49,430 exchange actually with the gentleman 2299 01:39:52,690 --> 01:39:50,750 that posed this to me in Florida 2300 01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:52,700 recently and he said well what's your 2301 01:39:56,800 --> 01:39:54,530 thoughts on disclosure I said well I 2302 01:39:59,950 --> 01:39:56,810 said I commend the people that are 2303 01:40:01,300 --> 01:39:59,960 lobbying for that but I said in my own 2304 01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:01,310 personal opinion I think it's an 2305 01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:02,570 exercise in futility 2306 01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:04,970 I said getting people to sign a petition 2307 01:40:12,270 --> 01:40:07,850 is not going to pry the very firmly 2308 01:40:15,100 --> 01:40:12,280 tight lid of this this cover-up 2309 01:40:17,290 --> 01:40:15,110 regarding UFOs you're not going to 2310 01:40:19,540 --> 01:40:17,300 pressure the government to release 2311 01:40:22,750 --> 01:40:19,550 information on this if they don't want 2312 01:40:25,060 --> 01:40:22,760 to because you signed a petition III 2313 01:40:27,250 --> 01:40:25,070 think that's just a little bit of 2314 01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:27,260 naivete on a part of how it would happen 2315 01:40:34,570 --> 01:40:29,600 if it would ever happen it would have to 2316 01:40:37,690 --> 01:40:34,580 be so spectacular like you know landing 2317 01:40:40,210 --> 01:40:37,700 and living among us and yeah I mean 2318 01:40:41,860 --> 01:40:40,220 something really spectacular before and 2319 01:40:44,470 --> 01:40:41,870 I say that with the utmost respect for 2320 01:40:46,690 --> 01:40:44,480 those individuals that are really 2321 01:40:47,440 --> 01:40:46,700 working toward that I I wish them the 2322 01:40:50,440 --> 01:40:47,450 best of luck 2323 01:40:53,020 --> 01:40:50,450 me personally I'm going to focus on the 2324 01:40:55,440 --> 01:40:53,030 phenomenon rather than trying to lobby 2325 01:40:58,420 --> 01:40:55,450 the government to release their files 2326 01:41:01,240 --> 01:40:58,430 the government may or may not have good 2327 01:41:03,610 --> 01:41:01,250 reasons for suppressing this information 2328 01:41:05,440 --> 01:41:03,620 and keeping it secret as we touched on 2329 01:41:07,260 --> 01:41:05,450 earlier Martin I think a lot of it is 2330 01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:07,270 they're just dealing with this this 2331 01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:10,250 inconvenient situation the 300 pound 2332 01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:12,170 gorilla in the room that they don't want 2333 01:41:18,100 --> 01:41:15,170 to officially acknowledge because we pay 2334 01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:18,110 our tax money really one primary reason 2335 01:41:23,590 --> 01:41:21,410 is for what to say or security yeah and 2336 01:41:25,990 --> 01:41:23,600 if you suddenly acknowledge the fact 2337 01:41:30,250 --> 01:41:26,000 that we're faced with a phenomenon that 2338 01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:30,260 a is real B we don't know where it comes 2339 01:41:36,010 --> 01:41:33,290 from C we don't know really why they're 2340 01:41:37,030 --> 01:41:36,020 here and we have no ability to control 2341 01:41:39,910 --> 01:41:37,040 the situation 2342 01:41:42,790 --> 01:41:39,920 do you really think any not just United 2343 01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:42,800 States any world leader or military 2344 01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:44,690 group is going to step forward and 2345 01:41:54,250 --> 01:41:49,810 acknowledge that exactly I do commend 2346 01:41:57,070 --> 01:41:54,260 Chile and a few other countries for 2347 01:42:00,820 --> 01:41:57,080 really taking this subject seriously 2348 01:42:02,649 --> 01:42:00,830 though oh yes absolutely absolutely and 2349 01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:02,659 I think some of the countries that have 2350 01:42:07,089 --> 01:42:04,610 come forward and released their files 2351 01:42:10,419 --> 01:42:07,099 may have released all they had again 2352 01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:10,429 they may they may be absent of physical 2353 01:42:15,490 --> 01:42:12,290 trace evidence they may be absent of 2354 01:42:17,260 --> 01:42:15,500 having any answers and and what's 2355 01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:17,270 interesting is again those are all data 2356 01:42:20,979 --> 01:42:19,010 points you know if we can take the 2357 01:42:22,810 --> 01:42:20,989 project Bluebook files and disregard 2358 01:42:25,570 --> 01:42:22,820 some of the ridiculous explanations they 2359 01:42:27,820 --> 01:42:25,580 made for some of these UFO sightings and 2360 01:42:30,790 --> 01:42:27,830 look at just the report because as I say 2361 01:42:33,100 --> 01:42:30,800 in my in my research on triangles I take 2362 01:42:35,709 --> 01:42:33,110 those reports at face value I don't 2363 01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:35,719 necessarily even look at the Air Force 2364 01:42:39,609 --> 01:42:37,730 explanation because in some cases it 2365 01:42:42,250 --> 01:42:39,619 doesn't make any sense the Albany 2366 01:42:44,140 --> 01:42:42,260 Georgia incident that I referred to they 2367 01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:44,150 stated their final conclusion it was a 2368 01:42:50,589 --> 01:42:47,530 visual sighting of the planet Venus now 2369 01:42:55,149 --> 01:42:50,599 as I like to point out there's two 2370 01:42:56,800 --> 01:42:55,159 problems with that one the pilot when he 2371 01:43:00,129 --> 01:42:56,810 accelerated and increased in altitude 2372 01:43:03,820 --> 01:43:00,139 realized that Venus was now below his 2373 01:43:05,950 --> 01:43:03,830 jet so I have a hard time resolving that 2374 01:43:08,350 --> 01:43:05,960 as a semi educated logical individual 2375 01:43:11,229 --> 01:43:08,360 and then secondly the Albany Georgia 2376 01:43:13,209 --> 01:43:11,239 Regional Airport was tracking an unknown 2377 01:43:16,270 --> 01:43:13,219 primary target in the location at the 2378 01:43:19,780 --> 01:43:16,280 time that the pilot observed his UFO so 2379 01:43:26,589 --> 01:43:19,790 we have radar confirmation it is really 2380 01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:26,599 funny how absurd some of the answers are 2381 01:43:31,419 --> 01:43:29,210 for you know what happened like that you 2382 01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:31,429 think of you know the whole thing with 2383 01:43:36,430 --> 01:43:33,770 the swamp gas and all you know just 2384 01:43:38,350 --> 01:43:36,440 excuse that way exactly well and it's 2385 01:43:40,270 --> 01:43:38,360 funny you mentioned swamp gas because of 2386 01:43:42,490 --> 01:43:40,280 one of the surprises I came across doing 2387 01:43:44,770 --> 01:43:42,500 my historical research of course that 2388 01:43:47,709 --> 01:43:44,780 that term was coined quoted by dr. J 2389 01:43:49,290 --> 01:43:47,719 Allen Hynek when he went up to Michigan 2390 01:43:51,030 --> 01:43:49,300 in 1966 2391 01:43:53,270 --> 01:43:51,040 - look at those sightings around Dexter 2392 01:43:57,360 --> 01:43:53,280 Michigan and the Hillsdale College area 2393 01:44:00,360 --> 01:43:57,370 in going through the newspaper archives 2394 01:44:03,810 --> 01:44:00,370 online I stumbled across two or three 2395 01:44:05,640 --> 01:44:03,820 newspaper articles discussing the 2396 01:44:10,050 --> 01:44:05,650 sightings that were occurring in that 2397 01:44:13,290 --> 01:44:10,060 area at the time and I was surprised to 2398 01:44:16,230 --> 01:44:13,300 find that in the articles they 2399 01:44:19,730 --> 01:44:16,240 referenced that many of the initial UFO 2400 01:44:23,670 --> 01:44:19,740 sightings in the Ann Arbor Dexter area 2401 01:44:27,860 --> 01:44:23,680 were being reported by police officers 2402 01:44:31,860 --> 01:44:27,870 who described the objects as triangular 2403 01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:31,870 Wow I had never heard of that before how 2404 01:44:36,120 --> 01:44:33,730 about that now when you're getting your 2405 01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:36,130 someone up on the message board wondered 2406 01:44:42,930 --> 01:44:38,770 how you got your unique newspaper 2407 01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:42,940 collection and a thought came to mind do 2408 01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:45,250 you find out like for instance where a 2409 01:44:49,410 --> 01:44:47,410 sighting was on microfilm or something 2410 01:44:51,270 --> 01:44:49,420 like that and then you contact the 2411 01:44:53,130 --> 01:44:51,280 newspaper and try to get an Edition from 2412 01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:53,140 that time or how do you find your 2413 01:44:58,500 --> 01:44:55,210 newspapers well that's a really good 2414 01:45:00,420 --> 01:44:58,510 question I really appreciate that well I 2415 01:45:03,390 --> 01:45:00,430 always like to say that my collection is 2416 01:45:04,860 --> 01:45:03,400 a collection of collections and over the 2417 01:45:06,420 --> 01:45:04,870 years and this gets back to the 2418 01:45:08,310 --> 01:45:06,430 preserving history and that's kind of my 2419 01:45:09,980 --> 01:45:08,320 little my little mission with UFOs 2420 01:45:12,990 --> 01:45:09,990 preserving the history of this field 2421 01:45:15,540 --> 01:45:13,000 I've had the pleasure of meeting some of 2422 01:45:17,610 --> 01:45:15,550 the investigators and researchers over 2423 01:45:18,030 --> 01:45:17,620 the years some well-known others not so 2424 01:45:21,450 --> 01:45:18,040 much 2425 01:45:23,250 --> 01:45:21,460 that were sitting on scrapbooks of 2426 01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:23,260 newspaper articles that they had 2427 01:45:29,250 --> 01:45:25,210 collected over the last several decades 2428 01:45:31,670 --> 01:45:29,260 and one group in particular I still have 2429 01:45:34,380 --> 01:45:31,680 very dear friends in the st. Louis area 2430 01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:34,390 an organization that was a precursor to 2431 01:45:40,070 --> 01:45:37,690 the mutual UFO network or MUFON was the 2432 01:45:44,280 --> 01:45:40,080 UFO study group of greater st. Louis and 2433 01:45:46,830 --> 01:45:44,290 two of the early members of this 2434 01:45:48,600 --> 01:45:46,840 organization was mr. Walt Andrus and mr. 2435 01:45:51,230 --> 01:45:48,610 John Schuessler who were later 2436 01:45:53,670 --> 01:45:51,240 international directors for MUFON and 2437 01:45:55,500 --> 01:45:53,680 John lived in st. Louis he worked for 2438 01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:55,510 McDonnell Douglas and Walt Andrus worked 2439 01:45:59,520 --> 01:45:58,000 for Motorola in Quincy Illinois so they 2440 01:46:01,970 --> 01:45:59,530 were regular attendees at these meetings 2441 01:46:03,950 --> 01:46:01,980 but they amassed a 2442 01:46:08,950 --> 01:46:03,960 large number of case files news 2443 01:46:12,650 --> 01:46:08,960 clippings scrapbooks journals etc in 2444 01:46:14,660 --> 01:46:12,660 2005 I was contacted by the board 2445 01:46:16,100 --> 01:46:14,670 members who I had come to know over the 2446 01:46:18,170 --> 01:46:16,110 years and I had lectured at some of 2447 01:46:19,010 --> 01:46:18,180 their meetings and they knew that I was 2448 01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:19,020 already doing some preliminary 2449 01:46:24,290 --> 01:46:22,290 historical research that they actually 2450 01:46:26,540 --> 01:46:24,300 held a meeting and not to put too fine a 2451 01:46:28,970 --> 01:46:26,550 point on it the gist of the meeting was 2452 01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:28,980 we're all getting up in our 70s and 80s 2453 01:46:32,479 --> 01:46:31,050 and we're slowly dying off and what are 2454 01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:32,489 we going to do with all this material 2455 01:46:36,890 --> 01:46:35,250 and I'm very proud and I still would 2456 01:46:39,350 --> 01:46:36,900 like to say thank you publicly to them 2457 01:46:40,640 --> 01:46:39,360 they entrusted all of their material to 2458 01:46:43,490 --> 01:46:40,650 me because they knew I was trying to 2459 01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:43,500 preserve all of this this data and so 2460 01:46:48,410 --> 01:46:45,210 there was a vast collection of case 2461 01:46:50,870 --> 01:46:48,420 files news clippings in there a pro 2462 01:46:53,890 --> 01:46:50,880 bulletins from the early 50s with you 2463 01:46:56,180 --> 01:46:53,900 know chock-full of old case material 2464 01:46:58,130 --> 01:46:56,190 then there were several other ageing 2465 01:47:01,040 --> 01:46:58,140 researchers that I've come to know in 2466 01:47:02,750 --> 01:47:01,050 Arkansas Missouri Illinois that were 2467 01:47:04,910 --> 01:47:02,760 either willing to donate their 2468 01:47:08,570 --> 01:47:04,920 collections or allow me to purchase 2469 01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:08,580 their collections mr. bill Pitts veteran 2470 01:47:13,450 --> 01:47:10,650 a UFO researcher down in Fort Smith 2471 01:47:16,310 --> 01:47:13,460 Arkansas I obtained his collection and 2472 01:47:18,229 --> 01:47:16,320 and then just you know like many people 2473 01:47:20,210 --> 01:47:18,239 just going on eBay and going on the 2474 01:47:23,180 --> 01:47:20,220 internet and looking for collections for 2475 01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:23,190 sale and so it's just over the last 25 2476 01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:24,810 years has developed into this large 2477 01:47:29,300 --> 01:47:27,210 private library that I have which I make 2478 01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:29,310 accessible to any credible individuals 2479 01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:31,290 that are willing to you know come out to 2480 01:47:34,790 --> 01:47:33,210 Albuquerque and interested in looking at 2481 01:47:36,650 --> 01:47:34,800 the data I've had several several 2482 01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:36,660 researchers I've had Kathleen Martin 2483 01:47:40,550 --> 01:47:37,530 here 2484 01:47:42,979 --> 01:47:40,560 I had Greg Bishop wrote project beta 2485 01:47:46,130 --> 01:47:42,989 about the Paul bennewitz affair I've had 2486 01:47:47,780 --> 01:47:46,140 Greg Valdez who's the son of Gabe Valdez 2487 01:47:49,310 --> 01:47:47,790 who was the New Mexico State Trooper out 2488 01:47:52,310 --> 01:47:49,320 here investigating UFOs cattle 2489 01:47:53,990 --> 01:47:52,320 mutilations mr. Michael rat has been out 2490 01:47:56,900 --> 01:47:54,000 here several times enjoy having Mike 2491 01:47:59,360 --> 01:47:56,910 Michael over so you know I make the 2492 01:48:01,340 --> 01:47:59,370 information available and that's part of 2493 01:48:03,830 --> 01:48:01,350 the nonprofit concept is to take the 2494 01:48:05,900 --> 01:48:03,840 data that I have eventually get all that 2495 01:48:07,700 --> 01:48:05,910 digitized because I want to make it 2496 01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:07,710 readily accessible but most importantly 2497 01:48:12,260 --> 01:48:10,050 make it free because I believe that this 2498 01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:12,270 data this information belongs to 2499 01:48:17,450 --> 01:48:15,690 everyone right now I'm looking 2500 01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:17,460 at your Skype picture and I see a whole 2501 01:48:23,900 --> 01:48:19,850 bunch of books in the background there 2502 01:48:27,230 --> 01:48:23,910 and so are you are you like are carved 2503 01:48:30,830 --> 01:48:27,240 archival e you know keeping these pieces 2504 01:48:33,350 --> 01:48:30,840 like for instance in archival folders 2505 01:48:35,060 --> 01:48:33,360 and things like that much well I'm 2506 01:48:36,980 --> 01:48:35,070 actually over the last year and a half 2507 01:48:39,050 --> 01:48:36,990 since the books been published I've 2508 01:48:41,510 --> 01:48:39,060 actually had a number of volunteers 2509 01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:41,520 retired individuals that have been 2510 01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:43,530 coming over and helping me sort through 2511 01:48:46,100 --> 01:48:44,850 through the news clippings we just 2512 01:48:49,490 --> 01:48:46,110 finished sorting through literally 2513 01:48:50,840 --> 01:48:49,500 hundreds of old news clippings and we're 2514 01:48:53,090 --> 01:48:50,850 going to be going through the process of 2515 01:48:54,740 --> 01:48:53,100 doing some inventory but yes trying to 2516 01:48:58,370 --> 01:48:54,750 preserve this stuff you know for the 2517 01:49:00,260 --> 01:48:58,380 next generation and really excited about 2518 01:49:03,050 --> 01:49:00,270 you know eventually digitizing these 2519 01:49:04,850 --> 01:49:03,060 case files because again you know Martin 2520 01:49:07,340 --> 01:49:04,860 we've been doing this now for 70 years 2521 01:49:08,860 --> 01:49:07,350 we we are sitting on a lot of data but 2522 01:49:11,270 --> 01:49:08,870 we've got to make it more accessible 2523 01:49:14,060 --> 01:49:11,280 make it centralized and make it 2524 01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:14,070 searchable let let people whether it's a 2525 01:49:19,580 --> 01:49:16,770 student in Paraguay or a retired physics 2526 01:49:22,490 --> 01:49:19,590 professor in Switzerland or a college 2527 01:49:24,980 --> 01:49:22,500 student in Michigan be able to just go 2528 01:49:27,320 --> 01:49:24,990 online access the information and look 2529 01:49:29,180 --> 01:49:27,330 for patterns in the data I certainly 2530 01:49:30,710 --> 01:49:29,190 don't have any answers but you know 2531 01:49:32,630 --> 01:49:30,720 there's other people out there who are 2532 01:49:34,850 --> 01:49:32,640 thinking outside the box that might be 2533 01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:34,860 willing to look at the data from a whole 2534 01:49:39,650 --> 01:49:37,410 different angle and really when it comes 2535 01:49:42,530 --> 01:49:39,660 down to it we can talk conspiracy 2536 01:49:45,140 --> 01:49:42,540 theories we can talk about what Martin 2537 01:49:47,630 --> 01:49:45,150 believes what David believes but at the 2538 01:49:49,810 --> 01:49:47,640 end of the day the lifeblood of this 2539 01:49:51,950 --> 01:49:49,820 phenomenon really comes back down to 2540 01:49:54,650 --> 01:49:51,960 unconventional objects that people 2541 01:49:57,440 --> 01:49:54,660 reported in our skies and it comes back 2542 01:50:00,290 --> 01:49:57,450 down to those old Case Files have you 2543 01:50:03,410 --> 01:50:00,300 heard of a gentleman named Rob Mercer oh 2544 01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:03,420 yes I know Rob very well good I'm glad 2545 01:50:06,590 --> 01:50:05,370 you could know each other matter of fact 2546 01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:06,600 we'll be talking this weekend that's 2547 01:50:11,210 --> 01:50:07,890 another phone call and many phone calls 2548 01:50:13,550 --> 01:50:11,220 I'll be making this week yeah because if 2549 01:50:16,280 --> 01:50:13,560 you - you two should get together and 2550 01:50:18,740 --> 01:50:16,290 with those files I'd hate to see them he 2551 01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:18,750 and I were talking he was on the show a 2552 01:50:24,260 --> 01:50:21,570 while back yes yes yeah I would love to 2553 01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:24,270 see those preserved the work that he's 2554 01:50:27,830 --> 01:50:25,890 doing preserving those files is 2555 01:50:28,480 --> 01:50:27,840 tremendous and I congratulated him 2556 01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:28,490 several 2557 01:50:34,030 --> 01:50:30,970 times that of all people for those files 2558 01:50:35,890 --> 01:50:34,040 you know to wind up with it round up 2559 01:50:38,770 --> 01:50:35,900 with someone that truly appreciates the 2560 01:50:41,170 --> 01:50:38,780 historical significance of that and you 2561 01:50:43,060 --> 01:50:41,180 know I'm sort of that's sort of my 2562 01:50:45,580 --> 01:50:43,070 background and filled in the antiques 2563 01:50:47,260 --> 01:50:45,590 and fine art and documents and things 2564 01:50:50,620 --> 01:50:47,270 like that and documents is one of my 2565 01:50:53,320 --> 01:50:50,630 passions I really enjoy and you know you 2566 01:50:55,480 --> 01:50:53,330 think of like right now you could say 2567 01:50:57,460 --> 01:50:55,490 there are probably thousands and 2568 01:50:59,890 --> 01:50:57,470 thousands of Abraham Lincoln signatures 2569 01:51:02,140 --> 01:50:59,900 on documents and attics right now that 2570 01:51:04,750 --> 01:51:02,150 are just being spoiled away because he 2571 01:51:06,670 --> 01:51:04,760 was a lawyer for you know 25 years and 2572 01:51:09,730 --> 01:51:06,680 signed you know many documents numerous 2573 01:51:13,000 --> 01:51:09,740 documents so absolutely so along those 2574 01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:13,010 lines so there's probably a lot of UFO 2575 01:51:19,300 --> 01:51:15,770 information that is out there 2576 01:51:20,890 --> 01:51:19,310 and unfound at this point and that is an 2577 01:51:24,610 --> 01:51:20,900 amazing story how that showed up on 2578 01:51:27,430 --> 01:51:24,620 Craigslist and absolutely absolutely and 2579 01:51:29,290 --> 01:51:27,440 it just goes to show - you know as 2580 01:51:32,590 --> 01:51:29,300 you're mentioning Martin you don't know 2581 01:51:35,710 --> 01:51:32,600 where this data is sitting and how in a 2582 01:51:37,990 --> 01:51:35,720 roundabout serendipitous way it can come 2583 01:51:39,850 --> 01:51:38,000 into the possession of us again to where 2584 01:51:43,780 --> 01:51:39,860 we can have access to it and be able to 2585 01:51:45,640 --> 01:51:43,790 review that data it's you know and for 2586 01:51:47,320 --> 01:51:45,650 any any individuals out there that that 2587 01:51:48,940 --> 01:51:47,330 are from the early generation when 2588 01:51:52,540 --> 01:51:48,950 flying saucers first came into our 2589 01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:52,550 modern mindset in 1947 if there's anyone 2590 01:51:56,200 --> 01:51:54,770 out there with archival material our 2591 01:51:58,870 --> 01:51:56,210 collections that they don't know what to 2592 01:52:00,610 --> 01:51:58,880 do with you know feel free to reach out 2593 01:52:02,770 --> 01:52:00,620 to me I would appreciate speaking with 2594 01:52:05,230 --> 01:52:02,780 you about that because we're looking to 2595 01:52:06,820 --> 01:52:05,240 develop this nonprofit group and I 2596 01:52:09,610 --> 01:52:06,830 really think we're gonna make some 2597 01:52:12,610 --> 01:52:09,620 headway in preserving these articles of 2598 01:52:15,010 --> 01:52:12,620 history and that's I always make this 2599 01:52:16,660 --> 01:52:15,020 point Martin in my lectures it went you 2600 01:52:17,670 --> 01:52:16,670 know across the country when I lecture 2601 01:52:21,630 --> 01:52:17,680 on the subject 2602 01:52:25,090 --> 01:52:21,640 UFOs whether you consider it fact 2603 01:52:28,420 --> 01:52:25,100 fiction or folklore it's part of our 2604 01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:28,430 history that's right and let's preserve 2605 01:52:37,270 --> 01:52:31,010 it if nothing else for historical value 2606 01:52:39,810 --> 01:52:37,280 alone right and you know we owe that in 2607 01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:39,820 so many ways of so many documents and 2608 01:52:44,709 --> 01:52:42,170 current material 2609 01:52:49,450 --> 01:52:44,719 that you know we really need to preserve 2610 01:52:51,550 --> 01:52:49,460 and pass on to the generations and a lot 2611 01:52:53,260 --> 01:52:51,560 of things become rare and valuable 2612 01:52:55,990 --> 01:52:53,270 because people don't have that mindset 2613 01:52:58,000 --> 01:52:56,000 and they get destroyed or discarded 2614 01:52:58,560 --> 01:52:58,010 we've heard of researchers over the 2615 01:53:00,880 --> 01:52:58,570 years 2616 01:53:03,910 --> 01:53:00,890 unfortunately veteran researchers that 2617 01:53:06,850 --> 01:53:03,920 yeah supposedly had large collections 2618 01:53:08,919 --> 01:53:06,860 and you know weeks or months after they 2619 01:53:10,270 --> 01:53:08,929 passed away the question was asked well 2620 01:53:11,169 --> 01:53:10,280 you know what happened all those books 2621 01:53:13,450 --> 01:53:11,179 what happened to those and those 2622 01:53:17,890 --> 01:53:13,460 newspaper scrapbooks that that you know 2623 01:53:19,750 --> 01:53:17,900 mr. Wilson had well from what I heard 2624 01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:19,760 the kids didn't share his interest in 2625 01:53:23,380 --> 01:53:21,770 the subject they actually kind of didn't 2626 01:53:24,520 --> 01:53:23,390 like how much time he devoted to it so 2627 01:53:26,919 --> 01:53:24,530 when he passed away they just threw it 2628 01:53:29,410 --> 01:53:26,929 all in the trash hear that all the time 2629 01:53:32,110 --> 01:53:29,420 we only have a few moments left now I 2630 01:53:33,689 --> 01:53:32,120 looked online I didn't see a website 2631 01:53:36,490 --> 01:53:33,699 right off the bat do you have one eye 2632 01:53:37,979 --> 01:53:36,500 well long story with that I'll just give 2633 01:53:40,630 --> 01:53:37,989 you the Reader's Digest version I was 2634 01:53:42,610 --> 01:53:40,640 scheduled to get one online well over a 2635 01:53:45,070 --> 01:53:42,620 year ago but I've been involved in so 2636 01:53:48,850 --> 01:53:45,080 many different projects decided to 2637 01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:48,860 postpone getting one of my own and again 2638 01:53:52,870 --> 01:53:50,810 we're in the preliminary stages but once 2639 01:53:56,229 --> 01:53:52,880 this nonprofit organization gets close 2640 01:53:57,910 --> 01:53:56,239 to getting kick-started then we will 2641 01:54:00,040 --> 01:53:57,920 have a website and that will be my 2642 01:54:02,050 --> 01:54:00,050 website part of this nonprofit group 2643 01:54:03,459 --> 01:54:02,060 that I can be reached at I do have an 2644 01:54:05,530 --> 01:54:03,469 email address if I can throw that out 2645 01:54:07,780 --> 01:54:05,540 there go right ahead 2646 01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:07,790 if anyone would like to reach out with a 2647 01:54:12,580 --> 01:54:09,890 sighting or with any archival material 2648 01:54:16,419 --> 01:54:12,590 you might have you can contact me at 2649 01:54:21,459 --> 01:54:16,429 triangular UFOs that's plural with an S 2650 01:54:24,310 --> 01:54:21,469 at hotmail.com did you have a hard time 2651 01:54:26,620 --> 01:54:24,320 getting that that was just yeah I'm sure 2652 01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:26,630 nobody had taken that one yet so it was 2653 01:54:29,500 --> 01:54:28,610 very people remember that one so I 2654 01:54:33,370 --> 01:54:29,510 figured I'll go with that 2655 01:54:36,600 --> 01:54:33,380 right right and do you have any follow 2656 01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:36,610 up thing that you're going to author 2657 01:54:41,470 --> 01:54:39,650 well you know this is I have several 2658 01:54:45,100 --> 01:54:41,480 different ideas I would like to work on 2659 01:54:47,260 --> 01:54:45,110 but to be quite honest I was speaking 2660 01:54:49,570 --> 01:54:47,270 with a researcher this past weekend 2661 01:54:52,600 --> 01:54:49,580 about this nonprofit and about accessing 2662 01:54:53,920 --> 01:54:52,610 some of these case files and I've had a 2663 01:54:55,570 --> 01:54:53,930 lot of people in 2664 01:54:57,130 --> 01:54:55,580 I take this as a very high compliment 2665 01:55:00,430 --> 01:54:57,140 I've never written a book before until 2666 01:55:01,750 --> 01:55:00,440 my book came out but a lot of people 2667 01:55:03,580 --> 01:55:01,760 have asked me what your next book gonna 2668 01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:03,590 be on or I'm looking forward to the next 2669 01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:06,170 book by David Marlar I'll be honest with 2670 01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:09,050 you I think my time is best suited and 2671 01:55:13,510 --> 01:55:10,610 it would be the best contribution to the 2672 01:55:15,190 --> 01:55:13,520 field of ufology if I really focus my 2673 01:55:18,280 --> 01:55:15,200 energies on trying to preserve and 2674 01:55:21,460 --> 01:55:18,290 access and gain access to these UFO case 2675 01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:21,470 files and rather than writing a book I 2676 01:55:25,500 --> 01:55:23,810 would like to be known for being able to 2677 01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:25,510 preserve all of these case files 2678 01:55:28,450 --> 01:55:27,890 digitize them so that they'll be around 2679 01:55:31,420 --> 01:55:28,460 forever 2680 01:55:33,250 --> 01:55:31,430 well that's a great a great project 2681 01:55:35,830 --> 01:55:33,260 you're into and we have to say good 2682 01:55:37,410 --> 01:55:35,840 night it's been a real pleasure enjoyed 2683 01:55:39,250 --> 01:55:37,420 it Martin had a great time thank you 2684 01:55:39,730 --> 01:55:39,260 absolutely would love to have you back 2685 01:55:42,010 --> 01:55:39,740 someday 2686 01:55:43,390 --> 01:55:42,020 yes we'll talk more about the project 2687 01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:43,400 once it gets underway oh that sounds 2688 01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:45,530 great so I want to thank everyone for 2689 01:55:49,120 --> 01:55:47,330 helping out with the show today 2690 01:55:52,180 --> 01:55:49,130 Ryan Sprague for filling in for 2691 01:55:54,790 --> 01:55:52,190 Alejandro Rojas Carrie Lloyd Whitehouse 2692 01:55:56,620 --> 01:55:54,800 for the music Peggy shining through 2693 01:55:59,380 --> 01:55:56,630 managing our Facebook page and remember 2694 01:56:02,200 --> 01:55:59,390 you can like us on Facebook for all the 2695 01:56:04,750 --> 01:56:02,210 latest UFO news of course I want to 2696 01:56:06,610 --> 01:56:04,760 thank our guest David Marlar and next 2697 01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:06,620 week you will be listening to ray 2698 01:56:08,920 --> 01:56:08,330 Stanford I'm going to go down there this 2699 01:56:13,360 --> 01:56:08,930 weekend 2700 01:56:15,190 --> 01:56:13,370 and you can listen to this show live at 2701 01:56:17,230 --> 01:56:15,200 the Dark Matter radio network 2702 01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:17,240 every Wednesday 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. 2703 01:56:21,070 --> 01:56:18,890 Eastern Standard Time